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Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

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  • Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

    Here is a question for you gurus:

    Given the understanding that choking up on a club effectively "stiffens" the shaft for that swing, would I be correct in assuming that the magnitude of this is affected by the flex point unique to that shaft?

    Would choking up an inch on a high flex point driver not change flex dramatically more than choking up an inch on a low or mid point flex shaft?

    thx
    witb

    all TLT'd by Dan
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  • #2
    Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

    Choking up doesn't influence flex - your hands aren't nearly rigid enough.

    Why choking up helps contact is because you're now effectively swinging a shorter stick.
    Everybody wants a slice of winner - dekker

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

      Originally posted by LowPost42 View Post
      Choking up doesn't influence flex - your hands aren't nearly rigid enough.

      Why choking up helps contact is because you're now effectively swinging a shorter stick.
      Choking up might impact shot accuracy, good for some and poor for others. If the grip size gets too small you might not release the club properly, since the grip gets smaller as you choke down towards the shaft.
      Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
      Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
      Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

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      • #4
        Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

        Originally posted by Phippo44 View Post
        Here is a question for you gurus:
        Would choking up an inch on a high flex point driver not change flex dramatically more than choking up an inch on a low or mid point flex shaft?thx
        The answer to the question is mute as the deciding factor has to be with how the ball reacts ... do you have more or less accuracy?

        If % Error reduces than you found improvement, and forget about what the flex point says
        I suspect it won't impact everyone to the same degree.
        Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
        Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
        Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

          For what it is worth, Arnie recently said that choking down = increased stiffness.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

            Originally posted by 3whack View Post
            For what it is worth, Arnie recently said that choking down = increased stiffness.
            That's cool, but Arnie is wrong.
            Everybody wants a slice of winner - dekker

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

              Nope, thats not right. Choking up does affect shaft flex. In a recent article, Butch Harmon talks about that is one of the reasons why he doesnt like how AK choke sup on the club.

              It has nothing to do with "hand rigidity." F=M*A and the force on the shaft is increased by increased A (m/s^2) as M being the clubhead is constant. The acceleration (A) can be defined as centripital acceleration: a = v^2 / r

              where v = tangential velocity or speed and r = radius



              try that.

              But can anyone answer my question?
              witb

              all TLT'd by Dan
              Titleist 909D2 10.5 Diamana Whiteboard 73S
              Titlelist 909F2 15.5 Diamana Blueboard S
              Adams Idea Pro Gold 20.0 Javlin FX S
              Titleist AP2 DGS300HL
              Vokey SM 52 56 60 DGS300
              Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2.0


              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

                Originally posted by Phippo44 View Post
                Here is a question for you gurus:

                Given the understanding that choking up on a club effectively "stiffens" the shaft for that swing, would I be correct in assuming that the magnitude of this is affected by the flex point unique to that shaft?

                Would choking up an inch on a high flex point driver not change flex dramatically more than choking up an inch on a low or mid point flex shaft?

                thx

                ok, first need to clear up the misconception on flex point of a shaft.....high, mid , low etc.......

                contary to what many believe it is not that a high flex point driver flexes near the grip and a low one near the tip...

                the actual difference in the flex point in these shafts is about 4 inches apart on the shaft......

                now what is done in todays modern shafts is manipulations of the type and amount of material in different sections of a shaft.........this is not the same as flex point....which is your question....but it can make a shaft have a soft or firm feeling butt section or tip section


                so to answer your question regarding flex point is NO .....you would not see a noticeable change or difference in the flex point by choking down an inch....the flex point will stay exactly where it is in location on the shaft......only it will be closer to your hands since you are gripping the club down a bit.

                the only change that is of any significance when you choke down an inch would be increased control...........I agree with Lowpost that you wont see or notice a change in the flex....

                what is stiffness? it used to be cpm of the butt section of a shaft that was used as that measure of that , however today the profiles of graphite shafts are more complex and butt frequency is now a meaningless number( in itself).........you need a complete shaft profile....

                some shafts have a very soft butt section , some a very stiff butt, some a very soft tip,,,etc.....choking down might change feel , might not...
                Last edited by Weirfan; Apr 8, 2009, 10:09 AM.
                "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

                  ON your first point..interesting as I didnt realize the flex point changed so little on shaft to shaft.

                  However, I disagree on your second point. Clubhead velocity is dramatically affected by choking up. Try this on a simulator...you can see the difference. Just as a 105 clubhead speed based on a golfer's strength vs a 115 dramatically changes shaft loading and flex, choking up can cause this change in speed. Try it on a sim...
                  witb

                  all TLT'd by Dan
                  Titleist 909D2 10.5 Diamana Whiteboard 73S
                  Titlelist 909F2 15.5 Diamana Blueboard S
                  Adams Idea Pro Gold 20.0 Javlin FX S
                  Titleist AP2 DGS300HL
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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

                    Originally posted by Phippo44 View Post
                    Nope, thats not right. Choking up does affect shaft flex. In a recent article, Butch Harmon talks about that is one of the reasons why he doesnt like how AK chokes up on the club.

                    It has nothing to do with "hand rigidity." F=M*A and the force on the shaft is increased by increased A (m/s^2) as M being the clubhead is constant. The acceleration (A) can be defined as centripital acceleration: a = v^2 / r

                    where v = tangential velocity or speed and r = radius



                    try that.

                    But can anyone answer my question?

                    Well, if you want to get technical...

                    Not only are you effecting flex, but also spin, launch angle, swing speed, balance point, grip diameter, grip pressure, club length, dynamic lie, and dynamic swingweight.

                    Even in your argument, the shaft flex doesn't change because you put less load on it. Does the modulus of resistance change in a diving board because a 300 pound man jumped on it instead of a 150 pound man? No. There's less load applied. It doesn't change where the beam bends because of the change in load.

                    So again, NO, the flex doesn't change because of choking up. I'll agree that you reduce the load (which will reduce bending feel), but flex is unaffected - the actual beam length is unchanged.
                    Everybody wants a slice of winner - dekker

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

                      Originally posted by Phippo44 View Post
                      ON your first point..interesting as I didnt realize the flex point changed so little on shaft to shaft.

                      However, I disagree on your second point. Clubhead velocity is dramatically affected by choking up. Try this on a simulator...you can see the difference. Just as a 105 clubhead speed based on a golfer's strength vs a 115 dramatically changes shaft loading and flex, choking up can cause this change in speed. Try it on a sim...
                      you cannot swing a shorter club like a 9 iron as fast as driver.....it has to do with a few variables but alot to do with weight...when you choke down you dont change the weight of the club that you are swinging

                      I use 2 drivers , a 46 inch driver and a 44 inch driver....I have a swing speed radar and there is no sig difference in my swing speed btn the drivers

                      not sure what you are trying to say in the last part

                      however...swing speed of a golfer has little to do with how a shaft is loaded....most golfers unload a shaft well before impact early - mid release so they dont even utilize the flex of a shaft at impact as the shaft has loaded and unloaded already, pros have a late release and use the shaft properly

                      I cannot agree that a a 1 inch choke up on a driver will have a dramatic impact on clubhead speed....

                      all I know is that since most golfers use a driver that is too long.....in the majority of cases it will produce straighter and longer drives due to better face contact
                      "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

                        We've gotten away from the point here...thanks to all who have posted. I agree on the diving analogy. I think we agree that shaft loading is affected by the amount we choke up (or a 300 lb man vs a 150 lb man). All else equal (which is important), choking up should reduce the centripital force, affecting shaft loading.

                        I think in a roundabout way you have answered my question though, as I can see how the flexpoint is close to static with varying choke ups...but the magnitude of the shaft loading could be affected by this....which, when combined with the shaft's characteristics may change whether or not that shaft suits that golfer. (choked up vs not).
                        witb

                        all TLT'd by Dan
                        Titleist 909D2 10.5 Diamana Whiteboard 73S
                        Titlelist 909F2 15.5 Diamana Blueboard S
                        Adams Idea Pro Gold 20.0 Javlin FX S
                        Titleist AP2 DGS300HL
                        Vokey SM 52 56 60 DGS300
                        Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2.0


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

                          Originally posted by Phippo44 View Post
                          Here is a question for you gurus:

                          Given the understanding that choking up on a club effectively "stiffens" the shaft for that swing, would I be correct in assuming that the magnitude of this is affected by the flex point unique to that shaft?

                          Would choking up an inch on a high flex point driver not change flex dramatically more than choking up an inch on a low or mid point flex shaft?

                          thx
                          first off you are operating under a false assumption " given the understanding...........". There is no such understanding.
                          You don't choke up on a club for reasons of stiffening the shaft.
                          The flex point of any shaft is where it is, and chocking down will not change its location.
                          If you chocked down on a "medicus" will it change the location of the hinge?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

                            "first off you are operating under a false assumption " given the understanding...........". There is no such understanding.
                            You don't choke up on a club for reasons of stiffening the shaft.
                            The flex point of any shaft is where it is, and chocking down will not change its location.
                            If you chocked down on a "medicus" will it change the location of the hinge?"

                            Your point is poorly stated. I never said one choked up to stiffen the shaft. It is an unintended byproduct that can be mathematically proven given some other factors are constant. Decreased mass will do the same as decreased tangential acceleration to overall shaft loading, assuming all other constant.

                            I have no idea what a medicus is.
                            witb

                            all TLT'd by Dan
                            Titleist 909D2 10.5 Diamana Whiteboard 73S
                            Titlelist 909F2 15.5 Diamana Blueboard S
                            Adams Idea Pro Gold 20.0 Javlin FX S
                            Titleist AP2 DGS300HL
                            Vokey SM 52 56 60 DGS300
                            Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2.0


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Flex impact of choking up based on shaft

                              since you can answer yourself so succinctly, every thing's all right then.

                              Comment

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