For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

[bobby Jones]

Let's see how quickly this turns into a viscious second amendment debate

http://www.globalgolfpost.com/now/2016/08/17/video-golf-club-thief-held-gunpoint

Like a lot of articles, the comments following are the best entertainment - gotta read them. Apparently $3,000 in golf clubs = death penalty according to some.

[gotogolf]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

Saw this when posted a month ago. Yep don't mess around with cops in the south. The issue though is very simply a sting could have been set up as opposed to taking justice in to your own hands.

The real question though....

How much was he selling the clubs for?

[Pingnut]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

Seems a reasonable response to me.. don't want to be arrested? Don't steal

[dmcdam]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

Seems a reasonable response to me.. don't want to be arrested? Don't steal

I'm not sure threatening to kill him is warranted. It wasn't clear from the article if status as a retired Peace Officer gives one the power to point guns at people. He also kicked the guy in the head while he was down, though probably not that big a deal.

[Benz]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

Watched the video once.
IMO, if the suspect had fled, he probably would have been shot in the back.

1) Did the guy with the gun have valid authority to use it? The article indicates that he was a retired fire marshal.

2) Given that the suspect was suspected of theft, was there any reason to be concerned that we was also armed?

3) If the guy with the gun was making what amounted to a citizen's arrest of a person suspected of theft, was it appropriate to use a gun?

4) Was it a proportional response to use a gun for suspected theft of golf clubs? Or, was it appropriate for making an arrest in general?

5) Would the guy with the gun have been so aggressive if it were not his own property involved?

6) What's with the kick to the suspect's head while he is face down with another guy kneeling on him?

Again, based on the demeanour of the guy with the gun, it appeared to me as though he was prepared to use it in order to conduct an arrest. That said, if the suspect had fled, would it have been justified to shoot him? Or, should anyone suspected (by an interested party) of theft be subjected to an armed takedown? Is the guy with the gun so convinced of his own authority that he has to repeatedly threaten a suspect with being shot over a set of golf clubs? Really?

[Ignatius Reilly]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

Yikes, can you say "power trip"?

It's unclear what his current legal profession and status are, but it seemed odd to me that he never asked any bystander to call the cops so a proper arrest could be made.

And kicking him in the head... he may find that was a mistake, regardless of how pissed off he was.

[WDM1980]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

Watched the video once.
IMO, if the suspect had fled, he probably would have been shot in the back.

1) Did the guy with the gun have valid authority to use it? The article indicates that he was a retired fire marshal.

2) Given that the suspect was suspected of theft, was there any reason to be concerned that we was also armed?

3) If the guy with the gun was making what amounted to a citizen's arrest of a person suspected of theft, was it appropriate to use a gun?

4) Was it a proportional response to use a gun for suspected theft of golf clubs? Or, was it appropriate for making an arrest in general?

5) Would the guy with the gun have been so aggressive if it were not his own property involved?

6) What's with the kick to the suspect's head while he is face down with another guy kneeling on him?

Again, based on the demeanour of the guy with the gun, it appeared to me as though he was prepared to use it in order to conduct an arrest. That said, if the suspect had fled, would it have been justified to shoot him? Or, should anyone suspected (by an interested party) of theft be subjected to an armed takedown? Is the guy with the gun so convinced of his own authority that he has to repeatedly threaten a suspect with being shot over a set of golf clubs? Really?

1-4: NO
5 - probably because he seems to be on a power trip
6 - he's an *** on a power trip

Even cops don't get to shoot a guy because he's getting away. Without imminent threat to their person or someone else, shooting a suspect should result in a murder charge.

In this case, I think the gun wielding gentlemen should have been charged with assault with a deadly weapon if he wasn't making a citizens arrest and assault and battery for the kick to the head. I doubt that would ever happen though.

This is what scares me about the US. You never know where or when you're safe. That could easily have been a mistaken identity or other mix up. Basically, never get into an argument with anyone about anything.

Yikes, can you say "power trip"?

It's unclear what his current legal profession and status are, but it seemed odd to me that he never asked any bystander to call the cops so a proper arrest could be made.

And kicking him in the head... he may find that was a mistake, regardless of how pissed off he was.

It was a crazy power trip. According to the article, nothing was being done about the kick to the head or pulling a gun on an unarmed, non-threatening person in a public space.

[Bern]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

The use of deadly force by a private citizen in a non life threatening situation is never, ever justified. Especially when it is just theft.

[Benz]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

The guys on the video typify the stereotype of angry, self-entitled, old men.

[nearace]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

Sucks when you get caught

[Benz]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

Sucks when you get caught

Fair enough, but what if this was the wrong guy?

IMO, the guy with the gun was prepared to escalate this situation as far as he thought necessary in order to effect an arrest, including shooting the suspect either for fleeing or for not complying with his commands. If he did so, would you consider that an appropriate response to the situation?

Put yourself in the shoes of the 'suspect' if, in fact, he was the wrong guy. A stranger confronts you with a gun and orders you to 'get on the ground' or else he will shoot you. At this point, what is the difference between this situation and an armed assault and/or robbery? Should you simply comply and hope to God he doesn't blow your head off? Or, should you try to run away?

[Arthur Dailey]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

The guy with the gun states "I'm a cop". In reality he is 'Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training and retains his status as a retired peace officer' and was according to the link a 'Fire Marshall'. Not sure what status that has in Oklahoma but being a retired police officer confers no more status than that of a regular citizen in Ontario. The same with being a Firefighter.

He tells the guy who allegedly stole his clubs that "I will kill you". That is a uttering a threat and a crime.

How did he know for sure that was the person who stole his clubs?

Is anyone's life worth a set of clubs? Even a $3,800 set?

I say charge one with theft and then throw the book at the other one.

[Cyrus]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

The use of deadly force by a private citizen in a non life threatening situation is never, ever justified. Especially when it is just theft.

I have no problem with it.

[OKHC]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

I have a problem with it.

It does appear to be an angry old man; I'm not sure about the self-entitled part.

I suspect that anyone who points a gun at someone, has lots of adrenaline flowing, a fast heartbeat etc. (Even a cop, retired or otherwise). I think he's more likely to fire an accidental shot, than he would at, say, the practice range, especially if the alleged thief makes a sudden move. For that reason, people shouldn't pull out guns for relatively minor infractions like theft.

[Bern]

Re: For thsoe on the board who have had their clubs stolen...

I have no problem with it.

What if the person was wrong and shot an innocent? There is a reason we have police and a judiciary.

Your comment transitively implies that it's OK to shoot thieves with no due process.

The person with the gun was in absolutely no danger and never was. I would further that our society becomes a much more dangerous place should we allow this form of citizen's arrest.