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Old Nov 13, 2016, 09:05 AM   #1
danscustomgolfshop
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Default MOI fittings

'Maxwell' sent me this in his private messages - but Max, you are not able to receive text messages - check your settings - so I took it to the group for discussion. Hope you are fine with that.

Maxwell said:

Dan
Has there been a posting yet about MOI club fitting here at Toronto Golf Forum? I'd like to read-up on what has been said AND by whom. I have read some of Tom Wishon's thoughts and opinions AND Mr. Tutleman's research, thoughts and opinions as well.
Max

So here we go with my thoughts.

The topic of MOI comes up now and then but not sure if there are threads specific to it.

MOI is about making the club have the same heft (some call it feel) regardless of which club is in your hands. The MOI guys will tell you that there is different MOI's for woods, irons and some say wedges. So we are really talking 3 MOI values to create a set. Maybe 4 if the driver is separate?

So lets talk irons / wedges to start.

Some MOI builders will sacrifice length just to meet an MOI number and I have problems with this. Heavier heads will create a higher MOI number, so many builders will reduce the overall length to meet this number. With all the study I have done on length and lie - there is no way I will sacrifice length to create a matching heft number. To me this is building to club matching specifications, not customer correct specifications. So if we end up with a heavier head and reduce the overall length to reach this MOI then the player is now crouching to play a club that may feel the same heft wise - but have sacrificed their athletic stance to reach this arbitrary number.

The other method is of course to reduce the weight of the head. This can involve grinding, drilling, porting - or whatever it takes to drop XX grams from the head.

TLT does MOI out well and the 2 do work well together but length and lie should never be a second choice. Pulling you out of an athletic stance to meet a number should never happen. I build to MOI theories, but builder friends have double checked my methods vs the machine and there is very good correlation. MOI can get very nit picky on head weight using ferrules etc. to get very near the perfect head weight. Not saying that working to the n'th level is a bad thing as I do the same, but my methods involve progressive swing weights and dialed in lengths and lies. I find sacrificing club length to be the last thing I want to do
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Old Nov 13, 2016, 11:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by danscustomgolfshop View Post
'Maxwell' sent me this in his private messages - but Max, you are not able to receive text messages - check your settings - so I took it to the group for discussion. Hope you are fine with that.

Maxwell said:

Dan
Has there been a posting yet about MOI club fitting here at Toronto Golf Forum? I'd like to read-up on what has been said AND by whom. I have read some of Tom Wishon's thoughts and opinions AND Mr. Tutleman's research, thoughts and opinions as well.
Max

So here we go with my thoughts.

The topic of MOI comes up now and then but not sure if there are threads specific to it.

MOI is about making the club have the same heft (some call it feel) regardless of which club is in your hands. The MOI guys will tell you that there is different MOI's for woods, irons and some say wedges. So we are really talking 3 MOI values to create a set. Maybe 4 if the driver is separate?h

So lets talk irons / wedges to start.

Some MOI builders will sacrifice length just to meet an MOI number and I have problems with this. Heavier heads will create a higher MOI number, so many builders will reduce the overall length to meet this number. With all the study I have done on length and lie - there is no way I will sacrifice length to create a matching heft number. To me this is building to club matching specifications, not customer correct specifications. So if we end up with a heavier head and reduce the overall length to reach this MOI then the player is now crouching to play a club that may feel the same heft wise - but have sacrificed their athletic stance to reach this arbitrary number.

The other method is of course to reduce the weight of the head. This can involve grinding, drilling, porting - or whatever it takes to drop XX grams from the head.

TLT does MOI out well and the 2 do work well together but length and lie should never be a second choice. Pulling you out of an athletic stance to meet a number should never happen. I build to MOI theories, but builder friends have double checked my methods vs the machine and there is very good correlation. MOI can get very nit picky on head weight using ferrules etc. to get very near the perfect head weight. Not saying that working to the n'th level is a bad thing as I do the same, but my methods involve progressive swing weights and dialed in lengths and lies. I find sacrificing club length to be the last thing I want to do
I have been using the moI method for several years.

I combine TLT moi and frequency match where possible.

To simplify the process I go through the normal process of frequency matching the shafts (assuming they are parallel tip), tipping and trimming to length, I then check moi all clubs tip weight them as necessary and recheck moi. I then go to final assembly and check lengths and finally adjust moi as required.

Now this build method will give you a set of irons that are the same moi and and require the same amount of energy to swing each club.

This is not to be confused with moi fitting. However we have already determined length for the TLT method and unless there is an extreme head weight issue the golfer is extremely happy with the results because each club feels the same.

Generally I match wedges and fw separately. I build hybrids at the length over the club they are replacin so they are generally matched to the irons.

I use the auditor moi scale more than I use the sw scale these days.

We are limited when it comes to removing weight. Can sometimes get a few grams by drilling the base of the hosel but that's about it. I don't like to play with length to achieve moi. In doing so you then need to play with loft to maintain proper gaps. When changing the lofts you are also changing other characteristics of that head.

I feel proper length is more important .
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Old Nov 13, 2016, 11:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: MOI fittings

What about using lighter shafts in the longer irons ?
I believe this what the DG AMT shafts are all about.
Then we also have the Constant Weight shafts.

I still find my TLT 4i a bit of a chore to swing, though it is rarely swung in the course of a round.
I even was overly ambitious and had you make me up a 3i as well, but that resides in the closet.
I think there is too much total mass in the longer irons, and some overall weight reduction might be of benefit.

With my next build from you using the Accra 110i shafts, when I next visit I will be inquiring about using the lighter Accra 100i in the 4i and maybe even my 5i.
... not sure how going to lighter shafts in the longer irons affects MOI ?

~ Andy
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Old Nov 13, 2016, 02:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARL67 View Post
What about using lighter shafts in the longer irons ?
I believe this what the DG AMT shafts are all about.
Then we also have the Constant Weight shafts.

I still find my TLT 4i a bit of a chore to swing, though it is rarely swung in the course of a round.
I even was overly ambitious and had you make me up a 3i as well, but that resides in the closet.
I think there is too much total mass in the longer irons, and some overall weight reduction might be of benefit.

With my next build from you using the Accra 110i shafts, when I next visit I will be inquiring about using the lighter Accra 100i in the 4i and maybe even my 5i.
... not sure how going to lighter shafts in the longer irons affects MOI ?

~ Andy
I don't think you are that far off in your thoughts about a little lighter shaft in your 4 and 5. The 110 is an X flex where the 100 is an S flex, so a little adjustment will be required on the tip end of the 100's to keep the flex in line. This will reduce a bit of the heft and make them more manageable. That is one of the things with you playing the KBS Tour V 125g shaft. It is a beast and does take a good strong effort to load this shaft. When irons get up towards 39 inches they do become a bit harder to dial in the swing plane with a small - less forgiving club head. Hybrids and fairways can get away with this due to the very forgiving heads. Perhaps we have learned something here.

My other thought on this Andy, is to keep the 110's in play - and like you had requested earlier to me - keep the total length range down from your KBS set. So rather than 2.75 inches of total length (longest to shortest) we keep the total range down near 2 inches, so a reduced length build. This may take the added length and added shaft weight out of the scenario and keep a very manageable length in play for the long irons.

As far as your previous set, you should bring both the 3 and 4 down to me, allow me to reduce the length - just slightly longer than your 5 iron, adjust the lie and go give them a try. This will reduce a bit of the total mass and reduce the length - making them a more manageable length with a corrected TLT lie. We may want to add a trace of lead powder and a cork, just to keep the MOI in line with the rest of the set. This falls suit with a bunch of builds I have been doing more recently - and with great success I might add.
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Old Nov 13, 2016, 03:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kona Golf View Post
I have been using the moI method for several years.

I combine TLT moi and frequency match where possible.

To simplify the process I go through the normal process of frequency matching the shafts (assuming they are parallel tip), tipping and trimming to length, I then check moi all clubs tip weight them as necessary and recheck moi. I then go to final assembly and check lengths and finally adjust moi as required.

Now this build method will give you a set of irons that are the same moi and and require the same amount of energy to swing each club.

This is not to be confused with moi fitting. However we have already determined length for the TLT method and unless there is an extreme head weight issue the golfer is extremely happy with the results because each club feels the same.

Generally I match wedges and fw separately. I build hybrids at the length over the club they are replacin so they are generally matched to the irons.

I use the auditor moi scale more than I use the sw scale these days.

We are limited when it comes to removing weight. Can sometimes get a few grams by drilling the base of the hosel but that's about it. I don't like to play with length to achieve moi. In doing so you then need to play with loft to maintain proper gaps. When changing the lofts you are also changing other characteristics of that head.

I feel proper length is more important .
Jim, I too feel this is where the accuracy needs to live. With MOI builders are targeting a very tight weight set of variables - to really try and dial in the MOI number. We are talking less than a gram in many cases.

To create the argument - the best of the best golfers can just begin to feel the difference of 2 - 3 swing weight points - which is 4 - 6 grams, so by dialing in less than a single gram can be an exercise that may never reap the benefits. I understand why builders go to these lengths - just as I did in the development of TLT - always got questioned as to why a second decimal place in length was necessary - it is to be the best we can be.

Just saying - I find the athletic address position to be the biggest factor in developing a repeatable swing and swing plane, and sacrificing length for the sake of a gram or 2 - will not fly in my books. I will accept the gram or 2 and keep the player athletic all day long.
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Old Nov 14, 2016, 02:51 AM   #6
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Default Re: MOI fittings

From a hacks perspective, for me it is the length of the shaft that solely determines the repeatability / quality of a swing ( assuming the weight is not too heavy or too light ).

The reason I hit a W-9-8 iron much better than a 6-5-4 has nothing to do with the loft of the head or a few grams here or there.
Put a 4i head on an 8i shaft ( correcting for the 4i head's less weight ) and I will make solid contact most of the time, however with a ball flight that is far too low. Conversely put an 8i head on a 4i shaft and the results will be as poor as a typical 4i.

Compressing a set's length variance, such as with TLT, or TLT approaching SL, or full-on SL, has great merits and very little downside IMO.

Cobra has lead the way as a bigger OEM offering a modern engineered commercially available SL set. I am sure other major OEMs are watching closely, as the marketing departments always need a new bandwagon to sell something. I wonder if a big OEM may ever offer a tweener-set bridging the gap between a traditional L/L/L set and SL -> aka something resembling TLT.
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Old Nov 14, 2016, 03:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: MOI fittings

@Arl67

While I agree partially with what you said there are still other factors. The mind can play tricks on us.

When we are looking down at say a 21 or 24* iron head our instinct says "this ball won't get in the air if I don't scoop it"

Also depending on ones swing speed the vast majority of golfers can't elevate a traditional iron with less then 23-24* of loft with any consistency regardless of length TLT or SL. It's just the physics of flight. Will SL or tLT help contact yes. But one must still be able to produce enough launch angle and spin to keep that ball in the air.

For reference google the "24/38 rule golf" and I'd agree I swing my driver at 100-105mph. 6i around 85. I can't hit most sets 4irons. Because of the jacked lofts. And they're also too long. My AP2 I hit like a beauty. It's 24* of loft. If I want lower loft I need a Hybrid or Driving Iron.

For the reasons I will list below I feel TLT is far superior to SL.

I'm going to preface this by saying I've hit SL once and TLT now only 5 times

In a traditional set of golfclubs your ball position is not static nor is the width of your stance. They vary to change your AOA to be flatter or steeper depending on the loft of the club.

The concept of TLT is not "one magic position" but making sure your athletic position is the same for all clubs. Ie not too upright on long clubs andtoo crouched on short ones.

TLT does this easily as my stance and ball position change but ever so slightly giving me simplicity yet versatility it's so subtle I can't tell most of the time but they do change. This is required as different lofts require different AOA. With my 4i I'm about -1 AOA and my PW around -5.5.

This gives me great height and spin on all shots.

The concept of SL is one swing one ball position

For the simplicity of learning on set of things this is great. But as you've seen on many reviews most ppl are having a tough time from getting decent spin rates on most clubs. They are still very playable but the short irons weren't stopping quick enough (as AOA wast steep enough) and the Long Irons had a touch more role.

Also with TLT I'm loving my longer wedges however I can't imagine being any longer then I am. If I had 37+" wedges I'd say no. 36.25" is plenty as is.

As for the concept of MOI... I know my TLT set isn't MOI matched however it sure feels close.
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Old Nov 14, 2016, 03:58 AM   #8
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Default Re: MOI fittings

I wonder if a big OEM may ever offer a tweener-set bridging the gap between a traditional L/L/L set and SL -> aka something resembling TLT.[/QUOTE]

We might see a set with 0.25 inches in between clubs.

Fo ex:
PW-GW-SW at 36 inches
9-36.25
8-36.50
7-36.75
6-37
5-37.25
4-37.50

or 4-5-6 same length
6-7-8 same length
8-9-PW-GW- same length
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Old Nov 14, 2016, 04:01 AM   #9
Jasonp
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin View Post
I wonder if a big OEM may ever offer a tweener-set bridging the gap between a traditional L/L/L set and SL -> aka something resembling TLT.
We might see a set with 0.25 inches in between clubs.

Fo ex:
PW-GW-SW at 36 inches
9-36.25
8-36.50
7-36.75
6-37
5-37.25
4-37.50

or 4-5-6 same length
6-7-8 same length
8-9-PW-GW- same length[/QUOTE]

We might. Or a 3/8th however if you talk to Dan a constant length and lie progression doesn't mathematically work.

I think if Bryson dechambeau was doing better on Tour then other OEMswill pick up SL.
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Old Nov 14, 2016, 04:05 AM   #10
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin View Post
I wonder if a big OEM may ever offer a tweener-set bridging the gap between a traditional L/L/L set and SL -> aka something resembling TLT.
that would be great ,I don't think it would appeal to the masses.

Last edited by nearace; Nov 14, 2016 at 04:06 AM. Reason: ?
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Old Nov 14, 2016, 04:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Quote:
We might. Or a 3/8th however if you talk to Dan a constant length and lie progression doesn't mathematically work.

Maybe not mathematically but better than what's out there. The lies would have to be adjusted slightly but posture would be better

Quote:
But one must still be able to produce enough launch angle and spin to keep that ball in the air.
Maybe down the road if the concept catches on you might see a flighted SL set.(softer flex long irons-stiffer flex short irons)
I would also say it depends on the golfer and not necessarily swing speed.
AOA has a lot to do with it as well. A guy I play with hits his 4 iron a mile high( and all his other clubs as well)
His 4 iron lands in the green and the ball dies. He is a sweeper and plays Ping I25 stiff flex . His swing speed I would hazard is no faster than mine. I hit down on the ball and my shots are much lower than his. If i were to put a SL 4 iron in is hands I would bet dollars to doughnuts that he would hit it very high.

Quote:
that would be great ,I don't think it would appeal to the masses
.

Most time the masse don't even know what they are buying

Last edited by Tintin; Nov 14, 2016 at 04:52 AM.
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Old Nov 14, 2016, 04:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonp View Post
@Arl67

While I agree partially with what you said there are still other factors. The mind can play tricks on us.

When we are looking down at say a 21 or 24* iron head our instinct says "this ball won't get in the air if I don't scoop it"

Also depending on ones swing speed the vast majority of golfers can't elevate a traditional iron with less then 23-24* of loft with any consistency regardless of length TLT or SL. It's just the physics of flight. Will SL or tLT help contact yes. But one must still be able to produce enough launch angle and spin to keep that ball in the air.

For reference google the "24/38 rule golf" and I'd agree I swing my driver at 100-105mph. 6i around 85. I can't hit most sets 4irons. Because of the jacked lofts. And they're also too long. My AP2 I hit like a beauty. It's 24* of loft. If I want lower loft I need a Hybrid or Driving Iron.

For the reasons I will list below I feel TLT is far superior to SL.

I'm going to preface this by saying I've hit SL once and TLT now only 5 times

In a traditional set of golfclubs your ball position is not static nor is the width of your stance. They vary to change your AOA to be flatter or steeper depending on the loft of the club.

The concept of TLT is not "one magic position" but making sure your athletic position is the same for all clubs. Ie not too upright on long clubs andtoo crouched on short ones.

TLT does this easily as my stance and ball position change but ever so slightly giving me simplicity yet versatility it's so subtle I can't tell most of the time but they do change. This is required as different lofts require different AOA. With my 4i I'm about -1 AOA and my PW around -5.5.

This gives me great height and spin on all shots.

The concept of SL is one swing one ball position

For the simplicity of learning on set of things this is great. But as you've seen on many reviews most ppl are having a tough time from getting decent spin rates on most clubs. They are still very playable but the short irons weren't stopping quick enough (as AOA wast steep enough) and the Long Irons had a touch more role.

Also with TLT I'm loving my longer wedges however I can't imagine being any longer then I am. If I had 37+" wedges I'd say no. 36.25" is plenty as is.

As for the concept of MOI... I know my TLT set isn't MOI matched however it sure feels close.
Jason, your 4 - PW is pretty well MOI matched with a progressive swing weight. I do try to follow this rule when building and retrofitting as not only do I want you in your best address (TLT) but I also want the clubs to have a very similar feel (or heft - MOI). You go from a D2.5 to a D4.5 over 1.75 inches of total length change which will fall very close to MOI matched.

It's interesting that you do a small change to your address as you work your way through the long to the short - to allow for the change in AOA. I do a small positional change with my fore-aft ball position, but I do feel I remain consistent in my address height.
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Old Nov 14, 2016, 04:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: MOI fittings

That's what I meant dan. That's why I love TLT. All my setups feel the same. However ball position changes without the need for changing a swing.

In a SL set if you move ball position it will require different swings
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5W------Cobra King F6 Baffler (17.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 41.75"
3H-------Cobra King F6 (20.5) Fujikura Motore Speeder 9.8 TS S 39.4"
DHY------Adams Super DHY (21) Matrix White Tie S 39.75"
Irons------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
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Old Nov 14, 2016, 04:08 PM   #14
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin View Post
I wonder if a big OEM may ever offer a tweener-set bridging the gap between a traditional L/L/L set and SL -> aka something resembling TLT.
We might see a set with 0.25 inches in between clubs.

Fo ex:
PW-GW-SW at 36 inches
9-36.25
8-36.50
7-36.75
6-37
5-37.25
4-37.50

or 4-5-6 same length
6-7-8 same length
8-9-PW-GW- same length[/QUOTE]


Dan's reply - for some reason the quotations made it look like I wrote above , but here is my response below

The 1/4 inch change can work, but the math has to be right. I have done it as my program will quickly recalculate everything on the fly. This is the problem with all OEM's is that they keep the long irons too long and too upright for most golfers, trying to gain distance and stop everyone from slicing.

Problem is poor contact due to the too long of club looses distance and not everyone slices
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Old Nov 14, 2016, 04:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: MOI fittings

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that would be great ,I don't think it would appeal to the masses.
Not sure how improved ball flight will not be appealing as I continually get nothing but positive feedback. TLT really is not that different. OEM's are near 3 1/2 to 4 inches of length change, and standard TLT is near 3 inches total length change. Difference is I set the lie angles correctly rather than randomly (which is the only way I can describe OEM specifications.

The hard part I feel for the OEM's to approach a method like mine is that they would have to become a full custom shop - building each set to the correct LLL - otherwise keeping inventory up for all the length Series I use would be costly. Do it as a build to order and they would succeed - but they cannot get same day deliveries.
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Old Nov 15, 2016, 04:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: MOI fittings

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Jim, I too feel this is where the accuracy needs to live. With MOI builders are targeting a very tight weight set of variables - to really try and dial in the MOI number. We are talking less than a gram in many cases.

To create the argument - the best of the best golfers can just begin to feel the difference of 2 - 3 swing weight points - which is 4 - 6 grams, so by dialing in less than a single gram can be an exercise that may never reap the benefits. I understand why builders go to these lengths - just as I did in the development of TLT - always got questioned as to why a second decimal place in length was necessary - it is to be the best we can be.

Just saying - I find the athletic address position to be the biggest factor in developing a repeatable swing and swing plane, and sacrificing length for the sake of a gram or 2 - will not fly in my books. I will accept the gram or 2 and keep the player athletic all day long.
Dan wrote," Just saying - I find the athletic address position to be the biggest factor in developing a repeatable swing and swing plane, and sacrificing length for the sake of a gram or 2 - will not fly in my books. I will accept the gram or 2 and keep the player athletic all day long."
Question - Theoretically...How much shaft length removal would be required to achieve the desired MOI?
Max
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Old Nov 16, 2016, 04:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: MOI fittings

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Originally Posted by danscustomgolfshop View Post
Not sure how improved ball flight will not be appealing as I continually get nothing but positive feedback. TLT really is not that different. OEM's are near 3 1/2 to 4 inches of length change, and standard TLT is near 3 inches total length change. Difference is I set the lie angles correctly rather than randomly (which is the only way I can describe OEM specifications.

The hard part I feel for the OEM's to approach a method like mine is that they would have to become a full custom shop - building each set to the correct LLL - otherwise keeping inventory up for all the length Series I use would be costly. Do it as a build to order and they would succeed - but they cannot get same day deliveries.
I would of thought lie angles stay the same .
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Old Nov 16, 2016, 07:52 AM   #18
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Default Re: MOI fittings

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Question - Theoretically...How much shaft length removal would be required to achieve the desired MOI?
Max
Depends on the chosen MOI but 2 grams off would be peanuts in terms of length.
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Old Nov 16, 2016, 08:34 AM   #19
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Default Re: MOI fittings

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Depends on the chosen MOI but 2 grams off would be peanuts in terms of length.
I'm learning about MOI so I don't know very much about MOI. I do know,"a little bit" about swing weighting and how different parts of a golf club can change a swing weight. Dan developed "True Length Technology" and to his credit it has received awards. I wonder if a possible comprise could be made in his case knowing that small changes in a golf club could provide the desired MOI and not interfere with an athletic stance "too much" but not increase "crouching" disproportionately? Removing 0.025" off the butt end of a shaft could,"theoretically" move the MOI enough to bring it into spec and not impede a golfer swing,"all that much".
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Old Nov 16, 2016, 09:04 AM   #20
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Max, TLT and MOI do work very well together. It's just when I have reviewed the MOI build data from MOI only builders, for some reason I still see discrepancies and non uniformity in some of the lengths that they report building to.

I build to MOI theories but will not let a heavier head stop me from building say a wedge to what is the right length and lie, so the set may loose a bit of the MOI preciseness as we transition into the wedges, but I will not sacrifice the length just to meet a number. I build to my customers specifications - not letting the club MOI specification override a proper length.

Sorry I do not have any data to present, its just something I have noticed over the years when people have presented their MOI / length / lie build data. As MOI is a mathematical formula it has confused me as to why there is sometimes a lack of uniformity - often found in the length.
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Old Nov 16, 2016, 09:05 AM   #21
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Default Re: MOI fittings

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Depends on the chosen MOI but 2 grams off would be peanuts in terms of length.
I agree, so I let the 2 or more grams float - altering the MOI value rather than sacrifice length.
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Old Nov 16, 2016, 09:10 AM   #22
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Default Re: MOI fittings

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I would of thought lie angles stay the same .
Not quite sure what you mean, but I will try to explain where I think you are going.

If you look at OEM's pretty much all PW's are at 64 degree of lie, but by the time you get to the 4 iron, some have 61, some 60, some 59 lie - so this is where the lie angles become very random. Some sets have 1/2 degree lie change, some jump to 1 degree near the longer irons.

Some keep the wedges at 64 but continue to shorten the length into the other wedges. This will force you to be pulled out of your strongest address position due to a short club length. If you go shorter you need to go more upright - but even here there are limits that will start to cause grief.
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Old Nov 16, 2016, 09:13 AM   #23
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell View Post
Dan wrote," Just saying - I find the athletic address position to be the biggest factor in developing a repeatable swing and swing plane, and sacrificing length for the sake of a gram or 2 - will not fly in my books. I will accept the gram or 2 and keep the player athletic all day long."
Question - Theoretically...How much shaft length removal would be required to achieve the desired MOI?
Max
This really depends on the head weight discrepancy. If you have a very heavy head the MOI cannot be achieved without excessive shortening. If your wedges are random in weights then the MOI moves with these discrepancies. Adding weight to the light ones is fine, but removing weight in the heavy ones is difficult.
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Old Nov 16, 2016, 09:15 AM   #24
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Default Re: MOI fittings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell View Post
I'm learning about MOI so I don't know very much about MOI. I do know,"a little bit" about swing weighting and how different parts of a golf club can change a swing weight. Dan developed "True Length Technology" and to his credit it has received awards. I wonder if a possible comprise could be made in his case knowing that small changes in a golf club could provide the desired MOI and not interfere with an athletic stance "too much" but not increase "crouching" disproportionately? Removing 0.025" off the butt end of a shaft could,"theoretically" move the MOI enough to bring it into spec and not impede a golfer swing,"all that much".
Max

unlike swing weight matching, MOI matching makes each club the same in terms of the amount of force required by the golfer to swing each club , it results in a set of clubs that are matched to each other and identical in swing feel.

MOI is a feel parameter and while it does improve consistency by making the amount of effort required to swing each club the same ( not variable as in swing weight matched set) I agree with Dan that putting the golfer in the correct , consistent and repeatable stance is of primary concern. Minor changes in MOI won't be noticeable.
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Old Nov 16, 2016, 10:26 AM   #25
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Default Re: MOI fittings

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Originally Posted by danscustomgolfshop View Post
Not quite sure what you mean, but I will try to explain where I think you are going.

If you look at OEM's pretty much all PW's are at 64 degree of lie, but by the time you get to the 4 iron, some have 61, some 60, some 59 lie - so this is where the lie angles become very random. Some sets have 1/2 degree lie change, some jump to 1 degree near the longer irons.

Some keep the wedges at 64 but continue to shorten the length into the other wedges. This will force you to be pulled out of your strongest address position due to a short club length. If you go shorter you need to go more upright - but even here there are limits that will start to cause grief.
so when my ping clubs have an orange dot they are not all the same
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