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Old Nov 23, 2016, 05:00 AM   #1
veryold
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Default Some iron math/geometry

If any one interested, here is some irons geometry i did last night for a "standard" irons (3i vs PW).
click on link to see enlarged picture.
Cheers !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/145066...in/photostream
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Last edited by veryold; Nov 23, 2016 at 05:17 AM.
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 11:43 AM   #2
Tintin
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

Trying to go TLT?
I am listening. Please elaborate.
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 11:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin View Post
Trying to go TLT?
I am listening. Please elaborate.
No
Was just curious with all this talk about SL, TLT and such, to see what a "conventional set" of irons look like in their geometry. And thought that some may be interested. And also, how much a PW had to be made upright, or extended, while keeping its original lie, to be the same height as the regular 3i (probably should've used a 6i instead of the 3i for this). That's all.
Cheers !
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Last edited by veryold; Nov 23, 2016 at 12:14 PM.
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Old Nov 23, 2016, 06:48 PM   #4
4underthru9
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

Quote:
Originally Posted by veryold View Post
If any one interested, here is some irons geometry i did last night for a "standard" irons (3i vs PW).
click on link to see enlarged picture.
Cheers !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/145066...in/photostream

You might want to try "Paint.net" or something similar it will produce much better schematics, like with straight lines and nice curves plus the absolutely correct angles.
CHEERS
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 02:49 AM   #5
NiblickJeff
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

Interesting concept re: the geometry of the irons. I always felt that the total trajectory that the ball travelled after impact was pretty much the same for all irons - somewhere in the 260 yard range. Take into account the lower trajectory of a 3 iron and the elongated flight parabola as opposed to the higher trajectory of the 9 iron and the cone shaped flight pattern. The 3 iron may slowly rise from impact a distance of 110 yards and to a height of 40 yards and then descend the other 110 yards for a total distance from you af 220 yards with a total travel distance of 260 ; the 9 iron rises much faster, away from you 70 yards out to a height of 120 yards and then 70 yards down for a 140 yard total distance with 260 yard travel....it actually holds true for all the irons.....
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 07:43 AM   #6
Phatchrisrules
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

Quote:
Originally Posted by veryold View Post
If any one interested, here is some irons geometry i did last night for a "standard" irons (3i vs PW).
click on link to see enlarged picture.
Cheers !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/145066...in/photostream
Quote:
Originally Posted by veryold View Post
No
Was just curious with all this talk about SL, TLT and such, to see what a "conventional set" of irons look like in their geometry. And thought that some may be interested. And also, how much a PW had to be made upright, or extended, while keeping its original lie, to be the same height as the regular 3i (probably should've used a 6i instead of the 3i for this). That's all.
Cheers !
But what are you measuring, and more importantly, what am I [I]looking at[I], exactly? I'm looking at this, and all I see is that some arbitrary "C" pitching wedge, should be 5.2* different from pitching wedge "B". Are you saying it has to be flatter, more upright? Why? What are inches "D" and "E" representing? Are you saying there is a 1.5 inch difference between 3 iron "A" and pitching wedge "C", in an ideal set? Making the effective length of a pitching wedge ~= to a modern stat 6 iron?

I think it is important to get a correct lie angle down for every player, however, that is only going to help them so much. I mean I can manipulate an iron's lie angle simply by manipulating the position of my hands in relation to my body. But if I am chronic fader/drawer of the ball and want to minimize that effect, lie angle will play a minor role in that correction. However, swing path, ball position, and ultimately face orientation at impact are all going to be massively more instrumental in the direction the ball flies than the length and lie of a golf club.
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 08:08 AM   #7
veryold
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

my response in blue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatchrisrules View Post
But what are you measuring, and more importantly, what am I [I]looking at[I], exactly?
i just wanted to see, for a conventional set, what mods are required to a PW to achieve the same WTF height as the 3i, by:
1) making lie of PW more upright and
2) keeping the lie, but extending the shaft


I think it is important to get a correct lie angle down for every player, however, that is only going to help them so much. I mean I can manipulate an iron's lie angle simply by manipulating the position of my hands in relation to my body. But if I am chronic fader/drawer of the ball and want to minimize that effect, lie angle will play a minor role in that correction. However, swing path, ball position, and ultimately face orientation at impact are all going to be massively more instrumental in the direction the ball flies than the length and lie of a golf club.
Agree, but again, people are reporting on these forums how minute difference in lie/length makes a tremendous improvement in their ball striking performance.
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 09:05 AM   #8
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

If you look at my slides 4 and 5
http://www.danscustomgolfshop.com/un...h-and-lie.html
This is what I believe old is trying to explain - only difference is that I am showing the deviation at the head end.

I believe it was an attempt to understand the differences that live in the height of the top of the grips 3 vs wedge - indicating that the more upright the long club - the higher the address position will have to be to accommodate.

Slide 4 shows the opposite end of the club where the specifications are 1/2 inch length / club and 1/2 degree lie change per club. If your wedge was right - your 3 iron is sunk deep in the ground (to be parallel), or slide 5 shows the reality that the toe will be way too upright when addressed athletically.

I applaud the old fella for taking the time to try to understand and explain the math.
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 09:11 AM   #9
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatchrisrules View Post
But what are you measuring, and more importantly, what am I [I]looking at[I], exactly? I'm looking at this, and all I see is that some arbitrary "C" pitching wedge, should be 5.2* different from pitching wedge "B". Are you saying it has to be flatter, more upright? Why? What are inches "D" and "E" representing? Are you saying there is a 1.5 inch difference between 3 iron "A" and pitching wedge "C", in an ideal set? Making the effective length of a pitching wedge ~= to a modern stat 6 iron?

I think it is important to get a correct lie angle down for every player, however, that is only going to help them so much. I mean I can manipulate an iron's lie angle simply by manipulating the position of my hands in relation to my body. But if I am chronic fader/drawer of the ball and want to minimize that effect, lie angle will play a minor role in that correction. However, swing path, ball position, and ultimately face orientation at impact are all going to be massively more instrumental in the direction the ball flies than the length and lie of a golf club.
I consider length and lie to be a major factor in correcting directional control issues. Yes your other 3 factors do play roles, but if the toe is up the face is not pointing down the fairway (it's aimed left), just as if the toe is down the face is now aimed right. Swing path, ball position, and ultimately face orientation all have some responsibility, but length and lie cannot be discounted as minor.
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Phone : 905-263-8510
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Appointment only
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 09:42 AM   #10
veryold
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

Quote:
Originally Posted by danscustomgolfshop View Post
I applaud the old fella for taking the time to try to understand and explain the math.
You made my day
Cheers !
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 10:49 AM   #11
Tintin
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

Quote:
Originally Posted by veryold View Post
You made my day
Cheers !

Make his now. Book an appointment
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Old Nov 24, 2016, 11:01 AM   #12
veryold
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Default Re: Some iron math/geometry

Quote:
Originally Posted by danscustomgolfshop View Post
If you look at my slides 4 and 5
http://www.danscustomgolfshop.com/un...h-and-lie.html
This is what I believe old is trying to explain - only difference is that I am showing the deviation at the head end.

I believe it was an attempt to understand the differences that live in the height of the top of the grips 3 vs wedge - indicating that the more upright the long club - the higher the address position will have to be to accommodate.

Slide 4 shows the opposite end of the club where the specifications are 1/2 inch length / club and 1/2 degree lie change per club. If your wedge was right - your 3 iron is sunk deep in the ground (to be parallel), or slide 5 shows the reality that the toe will be way too upright when addressed athletically.

I applaud the old fella for taking the time to try to understand and explain the math.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintin View Post
Make his now. Book an appointment
Ya never know
Cheers !
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