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Old Dec 21, 2016, 04:44 AM   #26
veryold
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Hey bl8d and Jasonp, thanks for all your wonderful and instructive comments here, very much appreciated

Well, re. 8* was a bit tongue-in-cheek comment, ***BUT***, if i don't crock out during Winter, and am still able to "swing it" next Season, i'm going to do an exhaustive test on this topic, on a real golf course. Mainly, with a, say 12*-13*, vs. 8*-9* drivers, and variety of tee heights and ball positions. This will be great fun to do.

Cheers !
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 06:01 AM   #27
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Remember to factor in head and shaft design.

Most modern heads even Tour pros are playing with 9.5*+ of loft. And they have a SS of 112+ typically and around an AOA of +1 at least.

So there very well may be a head that is 8.5* and fits u whereas another driver with the same shaft u may need 12*+ so factor that into ur testing
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 06:43 AM   #28
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonp View Post
Remember to factor in head and shaft design.
Head "yes, absolutely", shaft, well, i got BLASTED couple of years ago, with my comments on the "non-importance" of shafts, as confirmed by Mark Crossfield in his series of three vids on this subject, so i'll keep my mouth shut on the shaft subject for ever, at least on these forums, lol
So, on head design, and PLEASE, this is NOT AN AD, i have accumulated 3 drivers by Nike, all same Sumo model, same R shafts, but different lofts:
1. 10*
2. 13*, aka Lucky 13
3. 16*, aka sweet 16

As mentioned, it's going to be a very interesting test next Summer.

Cheers !
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 06:52 AM   #29
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by veryold View Post
Head "yes, absolutely", shaft, well, i got BLASTED couple of years ago, with my comments on the "non-importance" of shafts, as confirmed by Mark Crossfield in his series of three vids on this subject, so i'll keep my mouth shut on the shaft subject for ever, at least on these forums, lol
So, on head design, and PLEASE, this is NOT AN AD, i have accumulated 3 drivers by Nike, all same Sumo model, same R shafts, but different lofts:
1. 10*
2. 13*, aka Lucky 13
3. 16*, aka sweet 16

As mentioned, it's going to be a very interesting test next Summer.

Cheers !
to make the test meaningful you should have shafts that vary in flex.
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 07:05 AM   #30
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by veryold View Post
Head "yes, absolutely", shaft, well, i got BLASTED couple of years ago, with my comments on the "non-importance" of shafts, as confirmed by Mark Crossfield in his series of three vids on this subject, so i'll keep my mouth shut on the shaft subject for ever, at least on these forums, lol
So, on head design, and PLEASE, this is NOT AN AD, i have accumulated 3 drivers by Nike, all same Sumo model, same R shafts, but different lofts:
1. 10*
2. 13*, aka Lucky 13
3. 16*, aka sweet 16

As mentioned, it's going to be a very interesting test next Summer.

Cheers !
That will be a decent test. But what do u plan on doing? If u just hit them on a hole it's gonna be hard to tell which carries further then the other and which rolls further.

I remember playing a round once with this retired gentleman. Good golfer and his drive was a very consistent low push draw. The thing carried a max of 150y but rolled another 50+ yards. However there were a few holes (uphills or one where Fairway were damp/soft still) he got no roll at all.

So you may wanna try to test with a friend on course to help determine max carry.

As for crossfields shaft video I have seen the video ur talking about. I understand what he's saying and agree. Just because a shaft is low Launch and low spin it may not actually do that for a given player and may be actually higher spin and launch then a mid/mid design because the way a shaft feels/flexes will influence the way you swing it. So shafts do matter.
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 07:40 AM   #31
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bl8d View Post
to make the test meaningful you should have shafts that vary in flex.
Acknowledged, but unless TGNers donate clubs for this test, don't have clubs with different shafts to test. Although, more drivers is just what i desperately need before our downsizing move, lol.
But i think that my three Nikes will provide some meaningful data/results at least as the loft is involved, no ?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonp View Post
That will be a decent test. But what do u plan on doing?
Well, i play on a little 9 hole course, with a wide open 1st, and only par 4 hole on the course, which plays ALL OF ITS 330 YARDS FROM BLUE TEES, LOL. The course can be totally empty for hours on a slow day, especially at Sunset, so that will be my testing ground. My beautiful old Wife will stand behind me and telling me the trajectories, much more accurately than a Trackman could do . Will have to ease up a bit on my drives so i don't fly the green . And obviously, i'll use brand new balls, properly marked so will know the clubs that hit them. And i'll try many t-shots over a number of days, to add some statistical significance to the test.
Cheers !
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Last edited by veryold; Dec 21, 2016 at 08:34 AM.
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 08:55 AM   #32
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Is that Parkfirld? Lol can I come sounds like a fun day!
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 09:30 AM   #33
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonp View Post
Is that Parkfirld? Lol can I come sounds like a fun day!

It's Grand Highland GC, Kennedy and Eglinton, built on the Mississauga's first garbage mountain. Sorry about the location, but this is the only golf that we can afford on our Old Age Security Pensions, ATM. Once we sell the house and get the CASH, oh boy, from the Garbage Dump to Glen Abbey all the way, lol.
AND AFTER THE TEST, WE CAN DO 9 HOLES, TAKES LESS THAN 1 HOUR .
Cheers !
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 05:03 AM   #34
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridiron View Post
You might enjoy this from Flightscope. You can play around with the numbers all you want and it will spit out the final distance numbers for you:
http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/
Thanks for this link, much appreciated. After, first ignoring it, yesterday i spent quite some time playing with it and i get some astonishing/surprising results. Has any one used it and is it accurate and meaningful at all ???
Thanks
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 05:07 AM   #35
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

I use it all the time. Very accurate at calulating carry. Roll with any LM is a big estimate that's hard to predict.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 05:24 AM   #36
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
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I use it all the time. Very accurate at calulating carry. Roll with any LM is a big estimate that's hard to predict.
Hey jasonp, thanks so much for your kind and quick reply
Now, i don't know if i should bother other TGNers here with my results and questions on this topic, or maybe do it with you thru PMs or EMAILs, if you're willing, of course ?
Cheers !
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 05:38 AM   #37
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

I don't claim to be any expert and will do my best to help of course.

If you wanna discuss here I'm sure others will chime in. Plus you never know others may or may not be interested in learning as well. If not by all means I'll continue this via PM.
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Driver---Cobra King F6+ (10.5) Aldila Rogue Black 70 S 44.5"
3W------Cobra King F6 (14.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 42.65"
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Irons------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 05:39 AM   #38
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by veryold View Post
Thanks for this link, much appreciated. After, first ignoring it, yesterday i spent quite some time playing with it and i get some astonishing/surprising results. Has any one used it and is it accurate and meaningful at all ???
Thanks
Just remember that even though spin and LA are important ball speed still rules as the most important factor. Strive to achieve a swing that lets you hit the sweet spot as often as possible to maximize speed.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 05:52 AM   #39
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonp View Post
I don't claim to be any expert and will do my best to help of course.
If you wanna discuss here I'm sure others will chime in. Plus you never know others may or may not be interested in learning as well. If not by all means I'll continue this via PM.
Great !
Let me prepare few screen shots of my results and i'll post them here, and if people tell me to buzz off from here, i will oblige


Quote:
Originally Posted by Golftime View Post
Just remember that even though spin and LA are important ball speed still rules as the most important factor. Strive to achieve a swing that lets you hit the sweet spot as often as possible to maximize speed.
ABSOLUTELY and especially if it's some kind of a TM R11 driver,lol. I found them really monster long on center hits, but off-center hits got more punished than other drivers i owned. But again, this is only my personal opinion, which usually doesn't weigh much, if any .
Cheers !
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 08:08 AM   #40
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

The pics look so fuzzy when i post them here, but they are crystal clear on my PC. What am i doing wrong here ???

Ok, here is my first attempt to optimize/maximize veryold and Tiger
The numbers just don't look realistic. What am i doing wrong ???
Tiger
https://www.flickr.com/photos/145066...in/photostream
Veryold
https://www.flickr.com/photos/145066...in/photostream



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Old Dec 23, 2016, 08:41 AM   #41
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

So I can't make out and of the numbers at all other then what I think looks like a 25* launch angle.

***so either copy the link or just post the numbers you're using and I'll input myself*** also I like to use MPH (imperial)***

As awesome as that would be it won't ever happen especially with a driver. If you are able to get a LA that high (through using more loft) your spin would be through the roof and your shots would balloon. Even if you had an attack angle of +10.

Remember also what the program can't factor is a good swing. If your swinging your driver properly a safe range for AOA would be between -3(although not optimal) to +5/6. Anymore then that you're likely doing something very wrong in your swing to get an AOA that high.
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DHY------Adams Super DHY (21) Matrix White Tie S 39.75"
Irons------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 09:02 AM   #42
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Hey jasonp: Aaahhh, got it, and links are added to my post, try it out now.
And i definitely understand the impossibility to get 25* LA with a driver , but i'm just puzzled with the simulation results.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 09:22 AM   #43
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

So what is it u don't understand or thatspuzzling? Maybe then I can help

My only guess given the fact that you kept LA and Spin the same would be the fact that you're getting close to 50y of roll and tigers getting 3?

That's because of physics which I don't completely understand. But the pictures of the flight explain it.

Essentially with your ball speed 1400 RPM is not enough to keep the ball from falling out of the sky
If you're LAnwas lower ud be hitting it even shorter.

For "tiger" with that ball speed and LA even the 1400rpm spin is too much and causes the ball to balloon

But again always take carry vs total with a grain of salt on any given launch monitor or calculator.
Carry can be very accurate but roll not so much
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Driver---Cobra King F6+ (10.5) Aldila Rogue Black 70 S 44.5"
3W------Cobra King F6 (14.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 42.65"
5W------Cobra King F6 Baffler (17.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 41.75"
3H-------Cobra King F6 (20.5) Fujikura Motore Speeder 9.8 TS S 39.4"
DHY------Adams Super DHY (21) Matrix White Tie S 39.75"
Irons------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
Wedges---Cleveland RTX 3 (52/MG 58/LG) C Taper S/KBS 610 Wedge S
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 09:25 AM   #44
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
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So what is it u don't understand or thatspuzzling? Maybe then I can help
Ball Speeds of 120mph (veryold) and 180mph (Tiger) achieve longest drives with EXACTLY THE SAME PARAMETERS ?
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 09:33 AM   #45
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonp View Post
the fact that you're getting close to 50y of roll and tigers getting 3?
As per Carry and Total numbers, my roll is also almost zero as per simulator, no ?.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 10:41 AM   #46
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Whoops I misread it as 167y carry. My mistake.

As for your lack of roll it's due to the 25* LA causing a steep descent angle (which is not displayed)

Again though total is a very big guess always. Try to use this tool to maximize carry
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Driver---Cobra King F6+ (10.5) Aldila Rogue Black 70 S 44.5"
3W------Cobra King F6 (14.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 42.65"
5W------Cobra King F6 Baffler (17.5) Aldila Tour Blue 85 S 41.75"
3H-------Cobra King F6 (20.5) Fujikura Motore Speeder 9.8 TS S 39.4"
DHY------Adams Super DHY (21) Matrix White Tie S 39.75"
Irons------Titleist 714 AP2 4-PW C Taper S
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 01:51 PM   #47
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonp View Post
Essentially with your ball speed 1400 RPM is not enough to keep the ball from falling out of the sky
If you're LAnwas lower ud be hitting it even shorter.

For "tiger" with that ball speed and LA even the 1400rpm spin is too much and causes the ball to balloon
1400rpm backspin is very little...even for tiger
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 02:27 PM   #48
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

OK, a quick update, if anyone is still awake and interested, of course. Played around with many different combinations, with Tiger's 180mph ball speed, and would you believe it (or not) the best so far was achieved with, wait for it, the Taylormade famous 17/1700 combination, AKA, LOFT UP WITH SLDR: total distance of close to 340yards !!!
Cheers !
p.s. AND I HAVE NO financial or any other interest in TM. I actually sold all of my TM drivers since i dislike them. Maybe it's time to look for an SLDR on the cheap, lol.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 03:09 PM   #49
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Default Re: Theoretical Max. Driver Distance ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by veryold View Post
OK, a quick update, if anyone is still awake and interested, of course. Played around with many different combinations, with Tiger's 180mph ball speed, and would you believe it (or not) the best so far was achieved with, wait for it, the Taylormade famous 17/1700 combination, AKA, LOFT UP WITH SLDR: total distance of close to 340yards !!!
Cheers !
p.s. AND I HAVE NO financial or any other interest in TM. I actually sold all of my TM drivers since i dislike them. Maybe it's time to look for an SLDR on the cheap, lol.
Why are you using a spin of 1700 in your analysis?

Using 2016 as an example, Patrick Reed ranks near the top at 2950 (9.36 launch angle), and Jason Day near the bottom at 2118 (12.46 launch angle).
Rory McIlroy averaged 2495 (9.79 launch angle) and Dustin Johnston averaged 2610 (10.01 launch angle).

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02405.2016.html
http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02404.2016.html
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 03:27 PM   #50
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Why are you using a spin of 1700 in your analysis?
Because that's the longest drive that simulator produces. With Reed's stats, the distance drops by 15 yards.
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