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Old Dec 23, 2016, 08:08 AM   #1
davepratt
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Default TGN golf course rating

I was thinking that with some of the silly results on course ratings that publications like Score golf are putting out I believe that with the sheer volume of golfers on this site, we could take a much more accurate and representative survey on GTA courses.
I don't know how to set it up, but I'm willing to collect the data if someone has an idea on how to do it.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 10:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

That's quite the undertaking, with approximately 400 courses in Ontario, maybe determine the areas to include, good luck.

Golf Golf Course Directory: SINCE REMOVED some thought it was incomplete so no point in taking up all that space.

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Old Dec 23, 2016, 10:50 AM   #3
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

I'm going to see if I can find a piece of software that sets it up. I was thinking of a rating between 1 and 10 and using the categories: the course, conditioning, food and beverage, staff, pace of play and overall experience.
No worries about data collection. My wife will take care of it although she doesn't know it yet.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 10:52 AM   #4
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Originally Posted by 4underthru9 View Post
That's quite the undertaking. here's a list to get you started, good luck.

Golf Golf Course Directory
Your list needs some UPDATING

Interesting that there are NO courses beginning with the letters J, Q, and X Y, Z
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 10:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Originally Posted by davepratt View Post
I'm going to see if I can find a piece of software that sets it up. I was thinking of a rating between 1 and 10 and using the categories: the course, conditioning, food and beverage, staff, pace of play and overall experience.
No worries about data collection. My wife will take care of it although she doesn't know it yet.
Have you looked at surveymonkey or similar?

Also, consider adding "value" (or price) to the parameters.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 11:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

There is, as far as I can see, only a very limited solution that may be achievable using this discussion board. It would probably involve a new forum specific to the subject and require establishing a new thread for each course.

Each thread could set up a poll or survey for a particular course, asking people to rate the course on a 5 star system based on a general appreciation of prescribed criteria like. condition, facilities, average play time, value for money...etc.

Each person responding to the survey / poll could add their personal commentary.

That is about as fine a detail you could get I think given the limited resources of this board.

I don't know if it is possible to set up a thread with a poll or survey that could ask people to separately rank individual criteria, in addition to an overall rating????
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 11:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Have you looked at surveymonkey or similar?

Also, consider adding "value" (or price) to the parameters.
I'll have a look.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 11:16 AM   #8
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Originally Posted by Fore Warned View Post
There is, as far as I can see, only a very limited solution that may be achievable using this discussion board. It would probably involve a new forum specific to the subject and require establishing a new thread for each course.

Each thread could set up a poll or survey for a particular course, asking people to rate the course on a 5 star system based on a general appreciation of prescribed criteria like. condition, facilities, average play time, value for money...etc.

Each person responding to the survey / poll could add their personal commentary.

That is about as fine a detail you could get I think given the limited resources of this board.

I don't know if it is possible to set up a thread with a poll or survey that could ask people to separately rank individual criteria, in addition to an overall rating????
I just bought www.canadiangolfcourserating.com (Surprised it was available) so I'll use a different site that stays open so people can add ratings as they play courses.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 11:18 AM   #9
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Your list needs some UPDATING

Interesting that there are NO courses beginning with the letters J, Q, and X Y, Z
Thanks, it was a direct copy from the Toronto Sun Golf List for 2016.
Which ones need deleting and which ones need adding then?
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/gol...urse-directory
I have it in a spread sheet and can easily delete or add as needed.

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Old Dec 23, 2016, 11:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Which ones need deleting and which ones need adding then?
Well at a quick glance, it's missing all the private courses. If the intent is to only rate public ones, then the title should be modified to reflect that restriction.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 12:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Well at a quick glance, it's missing all the private courses. If the intent is to only rate public ones, then the title should be modified to reflect that restriction.
Agree completely, if that's what OP wants, no problem it's about two seconds of copy and paste.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 12:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Agree completely, if that's what OP wants, no problem it's about two seconds of copy and paste.
I'd like to do both. I think I can host it on my personal site.
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Old Dec 23, 2016, 08:43 PM   #13
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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I'd like to do both. I think I can host it on my personal site.
Great idea Dave. I also agree with you that the ratings some magazines put out may be a bit biased.
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Old Dec 24, 2016, 02:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

I agree, adding "value" would be a great addition to the choices when rating a course. Sometimes you have low expectations about a lower priced course and come away pleasantly surprised when you consider the price paid.

Another choice you may want to consider --- and somewhat related to "value" --- is price paid. Full price or discounted (via GN, UnderPar, etc) could affect the perceived "value" rating. If someone plays XXX course for $25 via a GN Hot Deal and rates it excellent value yet many others paying $125 thnk the value is low at that price --- the overall rating is somewhat skewed.

If possible, I'd suggest limiting the comment part of each review to a certain number of characters or possibly not even having it all. Look at the commentary of GN reviews or any hotel review site for that matter --- many comments are often unrealistic or simply idiotic.

Monitoring them could possibly be a large task.

Actually, this entire project could be a large task. Lol. Good luck!
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Old Dec 24, 2016, 03:46 AM   #15
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

Interesting idea. But IMO you need to determine what you want rated. A list of best courses is different than a list based on perceived value when $$$ is included. If Annandale offered a free beer per 9 it might rocket up the best value list. It wouldn't be a better course, it might just seem better to some. Or maybe not.
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Old Dec 24, 2016, 04:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

An idea from the past rather than listing ALL the courses, Ontario has about 400, set up a blank formatted Spread Sheet with the various categories to be included.
No need having courses on the list that nobody at TGN ever plays.
Then each person could add the course they visited and rate it, as the list grows somebody will attempt to add a course a second time, so a built in buffer would be needed to stop duplicate listing of the same courses. To insure this make sheet with cells that can only be changed by the "Sheet Master".
Then use columns that allow a rating for each category with say choice of 1-100 for each category. Spread Sheet would total points from all categories and average them out in the final column for the overall rating for each course.
Comments could be done separately with a link to that spot located remotely on the same sheet.
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Old Dec 24, 2016, 04:41 AM   #17
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Originally Posted by davepratt View Post
I was thinking that with some of the silly results on course ratings that publications like Score golf are putting out I believe that with the sheer volume of golfers on this site, we could take a much more accurate and representative survey on GTA courses.
I don't know how to set it up, but I'm willing to collect the data if someone has an idea on how to do it.
Hey Dave - is the idea to have a final published list with ratings for that moment in time, or an ongoing dynamic system that constantly gets updated with user data to reflect changes in ratings over time? You know when you look up a product online and they have a star rating next to it? That's just an aggregate of very simple ratings (usually 1-5 stars) but the good thing is ratings will go up or down over time instead of a published rating that could be years out of date. It might be more complicated with the various categories but I'm sure it can be done.
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Old Dec 24, 2016, 04:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Interesting idea. But IMO you need to determine what you want rated. A list of best courses is different than a list based on perceived value when $$$ is included. If Annandale offered a free beer per 9 it might rocket up the best value list. It wouldn't be a better course, it might just seem better to some. Or maybe not.
I was thinking the same. There's a big difference between best course and best value public course. If you're just looking at public courses, it's pretty easy to make that list. If you Include privates, access is the issue and most don't have it, so can't comment.
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Old Dec 24, 2016, 06:12 AM   #19
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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I was thinking the same. There's a big difference between best course and best value public course. If you're just looking at public courses, it's pretty easy to make that list. If you Include privates, access is the issue and most don't have it, so can't comment.
Even if only public Eagles Nest would rank higher than Remington Parkview on a GTA best course list but Parkview would likely beat EN on a list of best value courses if fees are included and weighted the same as other criteria. Both would be valid rankings on different lists.
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Old Dec 26, 2016, 08:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

My suggestions regarding factors to weigh:
  • Conditioning
  • Pace of play
  • Playability
  • Practice facilities
  • Lay-out/esthetics
  • Facilities (dressing rooms/showers/restaurant)
  • Location/ease of access
  • Walkability
  • Value for money
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Old Dec 26, 2016, 09:34 AM   #21
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Even if only public Eagles Nest would rank higher than Remington Parkview on a GTA best course list but Parkview would likely beat EN on a list of best value courses if fees are included and weighted the same as other criteria. Both would be valid rankings on different lists.
Maybe I'm a snob but any list that has remington ahead of EN is placing way too much emphasis on value. I'd rather play eagles nest twice a year than play remington 25 times.
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Old Dec 26, 2016, 11:57 AM   #22
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Maybe I'm a snob but any list that has remington ahead of EN is placing way too much emphasis on value. I'd rather play eagles nest twice a year than play remington 25 times.
Yes, you're a Snob...that wouldn't be playing much golf!

Lower your expectations, as I did, and enjoy playing 'lesser' quality courses, whilst saving $$.
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Old Dec 26, 2016, 12:34 PM   #23
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Yes, you're a Snob...that wouldn't be playing much golf!

Lower your expectations, as I did, and enjoy playing 'lesser' quality courses, whilst saving $$.
Not even a huge fan of EN, it's too hard to be enjoyable, but I've only been once. Bad example maybe. What I'm trying to say is value is very subjective. A lot depends on how thrifty you are. Some are happy to spend more on better courses, and some would rank a cow pasture best course in the world because it only charges a $20 greens fee. How people decide to spend their money should have nothing to do with which courses are best. Also, location has a big impact on price, so if you live on the outskirts of the GTA your idea of value woukd be very different compared to if you live downtown. I say rank the courses in terms of quality, and let people decide for themselves if the price is right.
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Old Dec 26, 2016, 12:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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Not even a huge fan of EN, it's too hard to be enjoyable, but I've only been once. Bad example maybe. What I'm trying to say is value is very subjective. A lot depends on how thrifty you are. Some are happy to spend more on better courses, and some would rank a cow pasture best course in the world because it only charges a $20 greens fee. How people decide to spend their money should have nothing to do with which courses are best.
I agree partially however.

Value does make a difference. To me a course can only be "so nice" and after a certain price point your just paying for a name. Sure its nice but meh. I find a course like "The Briars" much nicer then say Eagles Nest. Heck I found Cardinal Redcrest as nice. And I think eagles is a great course. However I'd never pay for it given the other options I can get in 2-3 other rounds at that price.

And as a guy who does enjoy 20$ rounds... I've had 20$ rounds I thoroghly enjoy at some cow patties that are well maintained but not particularly memorable.

So value is important IMO. I agree it shouldn't be the end all and be all. I am a person who doesn't mind spending more to get more enjoyment and value out of it. However I've also played "nice layout" courses and their conditions were meh. (Likely due to weather and long dry spells) but given the choice I'd take the less memorable course with better conditions.
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Old Dec 26, 2016, 01:25 PM   #25
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Default Re: TGN golf course rating

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I agree partially however.

Value does make a difference. To me a course can only be "so nice" and after a certain price point your just paying for a name. Sure its nice but meh. I find a course like "The Briars" much nicer then say Eagles Nest. Heck I found Cardinal Redcrest as nice. And I think eagles is a great course. However I'd never pay for it given the other options I can get in 2-3 other rounds at that price.

And as a guy who does enjoy 20$ rounds... I've had 20$ rounds I thoroghly enjoy at some cow patties that are well maintained but not particularly memorable.

So value is important IMO. I agree it shouldn't be the end all and be all. I am a person who doesn't mind spending more to get more enjoyment and value out of it. However I've also played "nice layout" courses and their conditions were meh. (Likely due to weather and long dry spells) but given the choice I'd take the less memorable course with better conditions.
I'm not saying value doesn't make a difference, of course it does. But it would be easy to see where a course ranks in terms of quality, then look at the price, and determine if it is good value. Including value in a ranking will greatly skew the ranking. Like was said before, there are those that would say "I wouldn't go to Remington if you paid me" and those that will say "I love it, it's cheap!".

Conditions are hard to judge too. They can depend on the time of year, recent weather conditions, etc. Some courses are great one day, so so the next, then great again a few days after. If the group in front of you doesn't rake the bunkers or fix their ball marks, do you factor that in? If you play in the morning vs in the afternoon conditions can be different even. If you think about it, a great golf course can be poorly maintained, and that would impact value, but it does not mean it isn't a great golf course. The architect shouldn't be punished because the greenskeeper sucks.

The best way to rank courses is by comparing scenic beauty, shot values, diversity of holes and terrain, routing, drainage, fairness, and fun. Essentially the overall quality of the design. We will have the best chance of agreeing on those things.

I know a course that is maintained by a wealthy gentleman who lets people play for free. It's only 5 holes, but who cares, it's free! Should it be #1?
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