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Old Dec 31, 2016, 01:04 PM   #1
Cdntac
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Default Soft stepping Project X

The past two years I've been using KBS stiff shafts in my irons. The previous two years I had irons wth Project X 6.0 shafts.

Both have felt good to me but after this season I started wondering if one of the reasons my iron play wasn't quite as good the past two seasons was because of the difference between the KBS stiff and the Project X 6.0 shafts (no, I was not fitted).

Reading about the shafts the past two years, I've learned that the Project X are more butt stiff than the KBS --- something they probably is an asset for me as I have an aggressive downswing and was fitted for a shaft wth a stiff butt in my driver a few years ago.

So I started thinking about soft stepping the Project X shafts and last week put my Project X 6-iron shaft into the 7 iron if my current set and compared it to the 7 iron (wth the Prject X shaft) of my old set at Launch earlier this week,

The newer iron head with the soft-stepped shaft had a bit more kick, flew a bit higher and farther and was just as accurate as the 7 iron from the old set.

So this afternoon I've put the Project X shafts --- soft-stepped --- into my current heads.

Now --- of course they are now 1/2" longer.

I've read that the lie will therefore be 1 degree more upright. I wonder how much of a difference that will make for me?

I'm 6'3" though I've been playing standard length irons my entire life.

I guess I'll eventually find out in a few months.
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Old Dec 31, 2016, 01:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

I softstepped my PX shafts on a set of irons just to experiment and I didn't notice a difference with the extra 1/2".
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Old Dec 31, 2016, 01:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Good to know!
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Old Dec 31, 2016, 03:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdntac View Post
The past two years I've been using KBS stiff shafts in my irons. The previous two years I had irons wth Project X 6.0 shafts.

Both have felt good to me but after this season I started wondering if one of the reasons my iron play wasn't quite as good the past two seasons was because of the difference between the KBS stiff and the Project X 6.0 shafts (no, I was not fitted).

Reading about the shafts the past two years, I've learned that the Project X are more butt stiff than the KBS --- something they probably is an asset for me as I have an aggressive downswing and was fitted for a shaft wth a stiff butt in my driver a few years ago.

So I started thinking about soft stepping the Project X shafts and last week put my Project X 6-iron shaft into the 7 iron if my current set and compared it to the 7 iron (wth the Prject X shaft) of my old set at Launch earlier this week,

The newer iron head with the soft-stepped shaft had a bit more kick, flew a bit higher and farther and was just as accurate as the 7 iron from the old set.

So this afternoon I've put the Project X shafts --- soft-stepped --- into my current heads.

Now --- of course they are now 1/2" longer.

I've read that the lie will therefore be 1 degree more upright. I wonder how much of a difference that will make for me?

I'm 6'3" though I've been playing standard length irons my entire life.

I guess I'll eventually find out in a few months.
People miss-understand this all the time. Round hole, round post - no change in lie. It's simply a longer club.

If you continued to play out of the exact same address position - then yes - the club will seem to be 1 degree more upright as the toe will sit slightly more up. However, if the club was previously slightly to short for you (and you being tall) you are now allowed to stand slightly taller - effectively making the club fit you better - and with your taller address there is no effective lie change - only a better fit.
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Old Dec 31, 2016, 03:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by danscustomgolfshop View Post
People miss-understand this all the time. Round hole, round post - no change in lie. It's simply a longer club.

If you continued to play out of the exact same address position - then yes - the club will seem to be 1 degree more upright as the toe will sit slightly more up. However, if the club was previously slightly to short for you (and you being tall) you are now allowed to stand slightly taller - effectively making the club fit you better - and with your taller address there is no effective lie change - only a better fit.
Thanks Dan. That's actually what I was thinking --- I just hadn't completely done the math yet.
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Old Dec 31, 2016, 09:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

What is meant by soft stepping a shaft, and what is its effect?
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 03:41 AM   #7
Cdntac
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpare View Post
What is meant by soft stepping a shaft, and what is its effect?
Putting a 4-iron shaft into a 5-iron head, 5-iron shaft into a 6-iron head, etc.

The reverse (5-iron shaft into a 4 head, 4-iron into a 3 head) is hard stepping.

This --- evidently --- allows you to play a shaft in between flexes.

The chart below shows measurements somebody made comparing different shafts at normal, soft-stepped, soft-stepped twice, hard-stepped and hard-stepped twice.

My KBS irons feel good --- I like the kick they give me --- I just want to see if the Project X 6.0 shafts I have would be better since they are more butt stiff.

But KBS stiff is not quite as stiff as Projext X 6.0 so if I soft-stepped the Project X 6.0 they become pretty close to the KBS stiff.

As a trial I soft-stepped the Project X into my 7 iron last week and I liked it.

The extra 1/2" of shaft length, I'm hoping, will be a benefit to me since I'm 6'3" (obviously my irons now are 1/2" longer since the shaft from one club up is now in a lower club).

Of course now that my irons are 1/2" longer, the swingweight has gone up. I'll have to add a bit of lead tape under the grips to get them down to D4.

Winter tinkering is kinda what it comes down to.


Last edited by Cdntac; Jan 1, 2017 at 03:47 AM.
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 03:43 AM   #8
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Thanks. That was very informative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdntac View Post
Putting a 4-iron shaft into a 5-iron head, 5-iron shaft into a 6-iron head, etc.

The reverse (5-iron shaft into a 4 head, 4-iron into a 3 head) is hard stepping.

This --- evidently --- allows you to play a shaft in between flexes.

The chart below shows measurements somebody made comparing different shafts at normal, soft-stepped, soft-stepped twice, hard-stepped and hard-stepped twice.

My KBS irons feel good --- I like the kick they give me --- I just want to see if the Project X 6.0 shafts I have would be better since they are more butt stiff.

But KBS stiff is not quite as stiff as Projext X 6.0 so if I soft-stepped the Project X 6.0 they become pretty close to the KBS stiff.

As a trial I soft-stepped the Project X into my 7 iron last week and I liked it.

The extra 1/2" of shaft length, I'm hoping, will be a benefit to me since I'm 6'3" (obviously my irons now are 1/2" longer since the shaft from one club up is now in a lower club).
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 03:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

If I had $$ to burn I'd love to get shafts of the same brand and see what difference it actually makes --- have one set soft stepped, one hard stepped and one regular.

Granted, I suppose that's what Modern Golf is for. Lol.

I was going to go to Modern Golf with both of my iron sets (before pulling them) and do an iron fitting to see the Trackman numbers, find out which were perfect for me and have them set me up correctly.

But then I spent the Xmas $$ I was given on a new guitar so I changed my mind and decided to just go the soft-stepping route. Lol.

I figure the worst case scenario is that with the extra 1/2" my irons fly a bit higher and a by farther. And that shouldn't be a bad thing.

Now I just wait until the GT and Golfworks grip sale and my tinkering is done for the winter.
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 04:21 AM   #10
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdntac View Post
If I had $$ to burn I'd love to get shafts of the same brand and see what difference it actually makes --- have one set soft stepped, one hard stepped and one regular.

Granted, I suppose that's what Modern Golf is for. Lol.

I was going to go to Modern Golf with both of my iron sets (before pulling them) and do an iron fitting to see the Trackman numbers, find out which were perfect for me and have them set me up correctly.

But then I spent the Xmas $$ I was given on a new guitar so I changed my mind and decided to just go the soft-stepping route. Lol.

I figure the worst case scenario is that with the extra 1/2" my irons fly a bit higher and a by farther. And that shouldn't be a bad thing.

Now I just wait until the GT and Golfworks grip sale and my tinkering is done for the winter.
I found the following website http://www.golfshaftreviews.info/ to be a great source of information on the characteristics of different iron shafts.

Regards,
Dan
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 05:01 AM   #11
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Yeah, he has some good info on there. Gotta winder how many people pay the $10 he asks for in order to see more reviews.
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 05:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpare View Post
What is meant by soft stepping a shaft, and what is its effect?
It's putting a shaft that is tip trimmed for one head into a heavier head. Moving the 4i shaft to the 5i head is softstepping once, to the 6i head is softstepping twice.

As you know, iron shafts are trimmed progressively more at the tip for trajectory control and accommodate increased weight and loft of heads as you move from 3i to PW.

Softstepping is a technique that clubmakers use to fine tune ( increase) trajectory control . Likewise, hard stepping has a similar effect but by using a bit stiffer tipped shaft ( move 5i shaft to 4i head) to lower trajectory.

It has the effect of changing flex by ~ 1/3
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 05:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weirfan View Post
It's putting a shaft that is tip trimmed for one head into a heavier head. Moving the 4i shaft to the 5i head is softstepping once, to the 6i head is softstepping twice.

As you know, iron shafts are trimmed progressively more at the tip for trajectory control and accommodate increased weight and loft of heads as you move from 3i to PW.

Softstepping is a technique that clubmakers use to fine tune ( increase) trajectory control . Likewise, hard stepping has a similar effect but by using a bit stiffer tipped shaft ( move 5i shaft to 4i head) to lower trajectory.

It has the effect of changing flex by ~ 1/3
I was surprised at Wishon's take on this,
Quote:
"The main reason for soft stepping or hard stepping is to change the feel of the shaft for golfers who really want their shafts to feel just right. The second reason is to try to change the launch angle and trajectory of the shot or to reduce or increase spin. A ˝ inch can exhibit the beginning of a ‘feel’ difference. At an inch, some golfers who have a very consistent swing will start to notice some difference in launch angle and/or spin. But in my experience, soft stepping or hard stepping is done far more for the purpose of image than for real performance purposes."
Regards,
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 06:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

I've seen that Wishon comment before.

I could have easily just swapped heads into the corresponding shaft but making the PX a bit closer in flex to the KBS as well as having an extra 1/2" intrigued me.

If need be I'll try the PX straight in after some spring rounds.
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 07:09 AM   #15
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdntac View Post
Yeah, he has some good info on there. Gotta winder how many people pay the $10 he asks for in order to see more reviews.
It's $10 a year. My thoughts were if you look at all the work that goes into, and the information on that website, it's a bargain.

Regards,
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 07:09 AM   #16
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

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I was surprised at Wishon's take on this,


Regards,
Dan

not really ....1/3 of a flex isn't much at all, and with the so many rec golfers unloading the shaft (early releasers) early to mid swing they aren't likely going to notice flex changes at all.

likewise the majority of golfers won't be able to notice a 2-3 swingweight point difference. ( swingweight impacts flex which impacts feel but can easily fool golfers)

When I fit and built clubs i would only soft/hard step step if I found somebody was on the fringe of a shaft being too stiff or too soft. When using .370 parallel shafts and a frequency meter, the fitter has much more leeway to fine tune and make accurate and customize his build to a defined frequency slope. ( with taper shafts much less)

many years ago I soft stepped 2x my original satin PX 5.5 shafts which played notoriously stiff and there was a noticeable difference in both feel and performance. My initial attempt to SS 1x did not produce a noticeable change....so consistent with Wishon.
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 11:08 AM   #17
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

soft stepping/hard is a shot at avoiding the cost of a complete shaft change,
and for the work involved, 1/3-1/2 flex change is not much of a gain. I did it once and I made myself believe it was an improvement.
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 12:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdntac View Post
Putting a 4-iron shaft into a 5-iron head, 5-iron shaft into a 6-iron head, etc.

The reverse (5-iron shaft into a 4 head, 4-iron into a 3 head) is hard stepping.

This --- evidently --- allows you to play a shaft in between flexes.

The chart below shows measurements somebody made comparing different shafts at normal, soft-stepped, soft-stepped twice, hard-stepped and hard-stepped twice.

My KBS irons feel good --- I like the kick they give me --- I just want to see if the Project X 6.0 shafts I have would be better since they are more butt stiff.

But KBS stiff is not quite as stiff as Projext X 6.0 so if I soft-stepped the Project X 6.0 they become pretty close to the KBS stiff.

As a trial I soft-stepped the Project X into my 7 iron last week and I liked it.

The extra 1/2" of shaft length, I'm hoping, will be a benefit to me since I'm 6'3" (obviously my irons now are 1/2" longer since the shaft from one club up is now in a lower club).

Of course now that my irons are 1/2" longer, the swingweight has gone up. I'll have to add a bit of lead tape under the grips to get them down to D4.

Winter tinkering is kinda what it comes down to.

what would a KBS regular plus be equal to
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Old Jan 1, 2017, 12:40 PM   #19
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

I'm not sure.

I did read somewhere (maybe Golfwrx?) that the KBS + were similar to hard-stepping but who's to say that's true for sure?

Though it's probably a safe bet from a logical standpoint.

So going by that chart, if accurate, perhaps 5.3?
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Old Jan 3, 2017, 04:39 AM   #20
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weirfan View Post
not really ....1/3 of a flex isn't much at all, and with the so many rec golfers unloading the shaft (early releasers) early to mid swing they aren't likely going to notice flex changes at all.

likewise the majority of golfers won't be able to notice a 2-3 swingweight point difference. ( swingweight impacts flex which impacts feel but can easily fool golfers)

When I fit and built clubs i would only soft/hard step step if I found somebody was on the fringe of a shaft being too stiff or too soft. When using .370 parallel shafts and a frequency meter, the fitter has much more leeway to fine tune and make accurate and customize his build to a defined frequency slope. ( with taper shafts much less)

many years ago I soft stepped 2x my original satin PX 5.5 shafts which played notoriously stiff and there was a noticeable difference in both feel and performance. My initial attempt to SS 1x did not produce a noticeable change....so consistent with Wishon.
I agree. Surprises me that anyone this side of the tour can notice such small differences.
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Old Jan 3, 2017, 03:08 PM   #21
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by muskoka111 View Post
what would a KBS regular plus be equal to
The KBS Tour R flex is a 110 gram shaft, the S flex is 120 grams. The R+ is weight sorted at 125 grams.
Having said that the R flex is a 5.0 on the Rifle (FM) scale and the S -flex is 6.0, so the R+ will be 5.5 on the FM scale.

Regarding the OP, Frequency aside, the KBS Tour shaft and the PX are totally different profiles. The KBS Tour is a slightly counter balanced shaft that has a firm butt section and a very active tip section, at least compared to the PX. Generally this shaft is designed for smoother swingers who are looking to increase launch and spin.
The PX is a stout shaft from top to bottom and is designed for the polar opposite player than the KBS Tour. If you want to lower launch, lower spin, decrease dispersion and have an aggressive swing......the PX is for you.
I think by soft stepping once you are just adding a little feel to the PX shafts which might really help. But there are lots of shafts that would fit somewhere in between in terms of profile.
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Old Jan 14, 2017, 11:42 AM   #22
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

If you want a softer feeling PX shaft try to find a set of PX flighted shafts. They play softer to flex the the regular PX
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Old Jan 19, 2017, 11:07 AM   #23
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhunter View Post
If you want a softer feeling PX shaft try to find a set of PX flighted shafts. They play softer to flex the the regular PX
feel is subjective and not the same from one player to another .
Butt stiffness of a shaft often fools people into thinking a shaft is stiffer of softer

I would argue that flighted shafts don't necessarily "play" softer to flex but some of the shafts "could" feel softer due to the variation in bend point compared to non flighted. this is not the same.

from my recollection, The difference between standard and the flighted shaft is that the flighted shafts are constructed from 3 different flex blanks, the non flighted from one/same flex blank.

The long iron shafts in the flighted set will have a softer tip for increased launch.

the middle iron shafts of a flighted set are the exact same shafts as the non flighted, there should be no difference in feel and performance when used in the same weight and model head.

short irons have stiffer tips in the flighted set for a lower trajectory and "could" even feel stiffer than non flighted.
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Old Jan 19, 2017, 12:44 PM   #24
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Default Re: Soft stepping Project X

^^^ what Weirfan said.
My set is flighted, and the 3-4 fly a little higher, which saves me having to bag a 3h.
Mid 5,6,7, are about the same as in my other rifle set.
Once you are used to the 8, 9, Pw irons flying a little lower and checking up sooner , you'll like that too. It takes a while.
I just got a mint set of older TM TP wedges with the wedge flex shaft and I don't know whether they are S2 S3 or S400. Another learning experience.
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