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View Poll Results: Worst Club in the GTA
Annandale 18 23.68%
Bantys Roost 29 38.16%
Bloomington Downs 2 2.63%
Camisle 4 5.26%
Cardinal East 2 2.63%
Castlemore 7 9.21%
Cresthaven 2 2.63%
Hornby Glen 1 1.32%
Lowville 1 1.32%
Maples of Ballantrae 4 5.26%
Richmond Hill 3 3.95%
Turtlecreek 3 3.95%
Other 6 7.89%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Dec 19, 2016, 07:07 AM   #101
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

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Total agree
Eh? While I might agree that Sidewinder/Copperhead aren't the most inspiring layouts, they are far from the worst golf in the GTA.

Food in the clubhouse is also excellent.
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 07:29 AM   #102
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

Granted, this is an old thread and I aint reading all 10 pages, but how does one define "worst golf course in the GTA"? Is it conditioning, layout, facilities? Personal preference surely cannot be in the criteria. Not sure how Lowville and Indian Wells are in the top 10 worst courses.

West of the 427, it's definitely Streetsville Glen and Camilse... and add Deerfield and Tayandaga to the list too. Worst public conditions in the west-GTA.

Worst club house may be Burlington Springs. If the carpet in the locker isn't as old as me, the mould surely is.
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 07:35 AM   #103
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Agree that Richmond Hill is generally in good condition. And in a great location for quick, easy access.

It is however highly priced and probably too 'tight' for many and too 'short' for others.
I played in the RH Men's League this year and got in over 20 rounds. My regular membership is with GolfNow/Underpar and I get around (played over 30 other courses in Ontario last season).

In my humble opinion I can say that even though from the tips it is only 6000 yards it is a challenge. My handicap is 11 (like long walks on the beach and the soothing sounds of Michael Buble) and I can tell you Hole 5, 11, and 18 are tough holes. Also, it is not a driver/wedge course. 18 you have to hit two accurate long irons to have a chance. One of the most interesting finishing holes around. The three par three's on the front are also a challenge and hole 8 is a tough little par 4, as is hole 1.

As mentioned the place is well kept! It is right off the 407 so very accessible and hence the cost of green fees. Lastly, the Men's league is very well run and the staff is class.

No way does RH deserve to be on this list.
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 08:09 AM   #104
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

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I agree with the approach taken by Top Gear when they tried to determine the worst cars ever made.

The did not include those cars that were admittedly cheap and without pretense. Instead they focused on cars made by respected manufacturers, and that had pretensions of being good vehicles and missed the mark.

A cow pasture that charges $25 and has no pretensions, should not be ridiculed for being exactly what it presents itself as.

But a badly designed or a badly maintained course or a course that rings out 6 hour rounds and then charges top dollars for the experience should be publicly denounced.
Very well put. If that is your measure, what courses would you include as the worst in the GTA?
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 08:48 AM   #105
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

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I agree with the approach taken by Top Gear when they tried to determine the worst cars ever made.

The did not include those cars that were admittedly cheap and without pretense. Instead they focused on cars made by respected manufacturers, and that had pretensions of being good vehicles and missed the mark.

A cow pasture that charges $25 and has no pretensions, should not be ridiculed for being exactly what it presents itself as.

But a badly designed or a badly maintained course or a course that rings out 6 hour rounds and then charges top dollars for the experience should be publicly denounced.
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Very well put. If that is your measure, what courses would you include as the worst in the GTA?
Great point Arthur - the idea of a course trying to be something it's not or having the price/pretension that doesn't match its condition, layout, and place in the market.

With those criteria in mind, here are my finalists

1. Lionhead (Masters course specifically, but the entire place generally - over priced, overbooked)
2. Dragon's Fire (repetitive and dull layout, slow play, clueless staff that hinder rather than help)
3. Piper's Heath (a links/heathland that's way overwatered - decide what you are; it should be firm and fast, not soft and squishy, SLOW SLOW SLOW)


On the opposite end - those courses who match what they are with their price and attitudes
1. Osprey (premium course, less than premium location, but priced about right with the golf for golfers' attitude)
2. Crosswinds (mid-market course - mid market pricing - maybe a touch high on price, efficient and effective proshop - go in, go out, no waiting, range always included)
3. Westview/Glen Cedars - (ok courses with prices to match, after 9am it's slow on the weekend, good conditions except for westview bunkers)
4. Hornby Glen - low price, low expectations, but generally the price matches the experience here
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 09:20 AM   #106
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

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I played in the RH Men's League this year and got in over 20 rounds. My regular membership is with GolfNow/Underpar and I get around (played over 30 other courses in Ontario last season).

In my humble opinion I can say that even though from the tips it is only 6000 yards it is a challenge. My handicap is 11 (like long walks on the beach and the soothing sounds of Michael Buble) and I can tell you Hole 5, 11, and 18 are tough holes. Also, it is not a driver/wedge course. 18 you have to hit two accurate long irons to have a chance. One of the most interesting finishing holes around. The three par three's on the front are also a challenge and hole 8 is a tough little par 4, as is hole 1.

As mentioned the place is well kept! It is right off the 407 so very accessible and hence the cost of green fees. Lastly, the Men's league is very well run and the staff is class.

No way does RH deserve to be on this list.

I actually quite like RH as well. When I lived at Keele/Lawernce, I made the trip to RH at least 2-3 a month every summer, we would play twilight rounds and typically would have the course to ourselves. I never had a complaint about the conditions.

I've also shot some of my best rounds.
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 09:31 AM   #107
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I was in a golf tournament there about 10 years ago. One of the guys in the tourney was so drunk he drove his cart into the pond and another drunk guy jumped into the pond after the cart had gone in....Not to help the guy who plunged the cart in the water but to try to save his unopened beer that he left in the cup holder.

I think they left the cart in the pond.
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 10:01 AM   #108
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

Only one I played on the list is Lowville (my dad lives near there). After reading some of the reviews, I think I'm going to keep it that way, lol.

Although I didn't mind Lowville all that much for the cheap price we paid.
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 11:53 AM   #109
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

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Very well put. If that is your measure, what courses would you include as the worst in the GTA?
That's a good question and I can usually find something good in every course.

Robert Thompson for example greatly dislikes Lionhead Legends. I quite enjoy having it beat my brains out.

I always found Angus Glen south to be a rather pedestrian design. However the conditions and service made it worthwhile for 'client golf'.

Generally I like Muyleart designs because he usually created good, solid, working persons courses with limited budgets.
On the other hand, I find Jayson Miller courses visually appealing, but almost impossible to walk and therefore, do not play them regularly.
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 01:32 PM   #110
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

I was assuming it was mostly conditioning, some the staff and only a bit the layout as the layout is probably the most subjective of the bunch. I guess value should be factored in.

From reading the forum for a while now I would think the front runners would be Bantys Roost, Parkshore and Annandale. I think 90% of the forum could almost agree to that so the tough work comes in figuring out the 4th thru 10th spots are
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 01:39 PM   #111
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Great point Arthur - the idea of a course trying to be something it's not or having the price/pretension that doesn't match its condition, layout, and place in the market.

With those criteria in mind, here are my finalists

1. Lionhead (Masters course specifically, but the entire place generally - over priced, overbooked)
2. Dragon's Fire (repetitive and dull layout, slow play, clueless staff that hinder rather than help)
3. Piper's Heath (a links/heathland that's way overwatered - decide what you are; it should be firm and fast, not soft and squishy, SLOW SLOW SLOW)


On the opposite end - those courses who match what they are with their price and attitudes
1. Osprey (premium course, less than premium location, but priced about right with the golf for golfers' attitude)
2. Crosswinds (mid-market course - mid market pricing - maybe a touch high on price, efficient and effective proshop - go in, go out, no waiting, range always included)
3. Westview/Glen Cedars - (ok courses with prices to match, after 9am it's slow on the weekend, good conditions except for westview bunkers)
4. Hornby Glen - low price, low expectations, but generally the price matches the experience here
While I didn't mind the course when I played it, Dragon's Fire really does think it is something very special.
Cannot agree about Piper's Heath.

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You've been golfing with Mark too much it seems.
Big Shooter is alright, but he does make some odd posts
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 02:17 PM   #112
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

Parkshore has to be the hands-down favourite in this category.
I don't have one good thing to say about the current state of the course...not even worth playing on a $7.99 Hot Deal tee time price...
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 02:54 PM   #113
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

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Here is what you said in 2005 on best and worst courses.
Yep, my 5 faves, back then!

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From reading the forum for a while now I would think the front runners would be Bantys Roost, Parkshore and Annandale. I think 90% of the forum could almost agree to that so the tough work comes in figuring out the 4th thru 10th spots are
Buddy, we gotta get you to Camisle! Early next season. Prepare Thy self!!
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 03:10 PM   #114
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Buddy, we gotta get you to Camisle! Early next season. Prepare Thy self!!
I'm ready for an experience
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Old Dec 19, 2016, 05:27 PM   #115
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Using arthur's criteria, hands down lionhead legends.
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Old Dec 20, 2016, 04:19 PM   #116
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Using arthur's criteria, hands down lionhead legends.
Yes! I completely agree. Lionhead was great when it was 27 holes. that was a long time ago.
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 06:03 AM   #117
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

Found a nice quote that best describes my definition of 'worst'. A bad course is one that disappoints because it is promoted for or promises conditions/values/an experience that it does not possess and does not provide.
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 06:07 AM   #118
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I like Bloomington Downs haha. It was in good condition all last year, and very easily walkable, not to mention is cost effective.
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 06:20 AM   #119
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Found a nice quote that best describes my definition of 'worst'. A bad course is one that disappoints because it is promoted for or promises conditions/values/an experience that it does not possess and does not provide.
Makes sense. That being said, conditioning+layout alone determine a good/bad course for me. I can usually correctly judge a course quality by just looking at it.

Driving into Crosswinds I could tell it was a fairly nice course.
Driving into Copper Creek I could tell it was a very nice course.
Driving into Indian Wells I could tell it was a POS.

In all cases that first impression did not change after I played them.
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 06:50 AM   #120
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Driving into Indian Wells I could tell it was a POS.

In all cases that first impression did not change after I played them.
How many years since you last played it?
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 07:10 AM   #121
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How many years since you last played it?
I've only played it twice. Both times in the fall. Once this year and once last year. Both times it was in brutal condition with patches of grass and mud on the tees and fairways. The ponds (especially on hole 2) looked like open pit mines. And the layout . Even my wife thought it was a mess.
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 07:35 AM   #122
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I played in the RH Men's League this year and got in over 20 rounds. My regular membership is with GolfNow/Underpar and I get around (played over 30 other courses in Ontario last season).

In my humble opinion I can say that even though from the tips it is only 6000 yards it is a challenge. My handicap is 11 (like long walks on the beach and the soothing sounds of Michael Buble) and I can tell you Hole 5, 11, and 18 are tough holes. Also, it is not a driver/wedge course. 18 you have to hit two accurate long irons to have a chance. One of the most interesting finishing holes around. The three par three's on the front are also a challenge and hole 8 is a tough little par 4, as is hole 1.

As mentioned the place is well kept! It is right off the 407 so very accessible and hence the cost of green fees. Lastly, the Men's league is very well run and the staff is class.

No way does RH deserve to be on this list.
Weak and unforgettable layout that leaves little to be desired after 18 holes; it definitely deserves to be there. Holes feel crammed in together and the 18th is one of the most poorly designed finishing holes I've played--especially for a par 5.

I won't comment on conditioning as I haven't been back there in over 20 years, and have no plans to. I'd sooner play Bathurst Glen with my wife, and even that place I avoid as you need a hard hat even on the driving range.
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 08:37 AM   #123
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Default Re: What is the worst golf course in GTA?

I'm not sure why Indian Wells gets a bad rap....sure it's not a premium course but it has plenty of difficulty on certain holes and the conditioning when I played it this year was good. The views are great!!

Played Crosswinds in a tournament once and although it has potential, i found that they did not condition it to be what it could have been...Maybe they do that to speed up play.
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 10:54 AM   #124
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I've only played it twice. Both times in the fall. Once this year and once last year. Both times it was in brutal condition with patches of grass and mud on the tees and fairways. The ponds (especially on hole 2) looked like open pit mines. And the layout . Even my wife thought it was a mess.
Yes, I will grant you that, it was ONE of the worst courses affected by the drought that I played this past summer (never seen the ponds so depleted)

I think it's a fun/challenging layout, and I love starting on a Par 5 like that!
Clubhouse, although small, was rebuilt several years ago, so it's more than adequate....and they usually have a bevy of fine looking ladies at the halfway house and/or cart girls.

Give it another shot, it's not an expensive course.

I'm guessing you didn't play/score well either!?
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Old Dec 21, 2016, 11:24 AM   #125
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Yes, I will grant you that, it was ONE of the worst courses affected by the drought that I played this past summer (never seen the ponds so depleted)

I think it's a fun/challenging layout, and I love starting on a Par 5 like that!
Clubhouse, although small, was rebuilt several years ago, so it's more than adequate....and they usually have a bevy of fine looking ladies at the halfway house and/or cart girls.

Give it another shot, it's not an expensive course.

I'm guessing you didn't play/score well either!?
I played pretty good. Went -2 on the par 3s (almost 2 holes in one). So that was memorable. I do like about a half dozen holes. Holes 2,3,5,6, and 16 are poor layouts that include quite a dangerous traffic jam, odd green placements, and forced layups off the tees.

Funny story: this was the course where I was paired up with two older gentlemen who were using cloth golf bags and they disappeared after 3 holes leaving me by myself. I thought I was being good company
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