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Old Jan 13, 2017, 12:08 PM   #76
hemants
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Default Re: President Obama's Farewell Address

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That is where you would be wrong.
There were 67 police shootings in 2007 and 65 in 2001 as opposed to 63 in 2016. If you want to correlate presidents with this metric, which I think is ridiculous, Obama's tenure saw 403 police shot and killed, George Bush's tenure saw 440.

Source
https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2016

With respect to race relations I'm not sure how you would measure that.
My thought is that a group just found their voice under 'their' president.

Nice to cherry-pick but the grass speaks for itself


http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/i...cerskilled.png
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 12:16 PM   #77
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Nice to cherry-pick but the grass speaks for itself


http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/i...cerskilled.png
The trend is downward for police killed in action, add up the numbers.

You just pointed to an obscure image uploaded to the internet.
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 12:22 PM   #78
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Default Re: President Obama's Farewell Address

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Nice to cherry-pick but the grass speaks for itself


http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/i...cerskilled.png
nice try.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36826297
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 12:33 PM   #79
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Default Re: President Obama's Farewell Address

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Nice to cherry-pick but the grass speaks for itself


http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/i...cerskilled.png
And I found this online ... could be relevant?

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Old Jan 13, 2017, 12:53 PM   #80
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Default Re: President Obama's Farewell Address

http://time.com/4619689/police-officers-killed-2016/
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 01:04 PM   #81
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Default Re: President Obama's Farewell Address

Objective data


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/1...oll-finds.html
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 02:36 PM   #82
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Did you actually read the transcript of his remarks or are you parroting the "assessments" of ultra right wing internet "press?" I ask because I have both listened to his remarks and read the transcript. If you can find divisiveness and racial baiting of officers in those remarks, then you are seeing things that are not there. His comments were thoughtful and compassionate and delivered from the perspective of one who was sympathetic to police officers who put themselves in harms way every day. In line with my earlier question to you, which you failed to answer, what specific passage or passages in this speech do claim are divisive rhetoric? Also, assuming such passages exist, which I doubt, what do you say about the rest of the eulogy?

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Simple example. Bringing up police racism at a memorial for slain Dallas police officers is disgustingly divisive.
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 02:47 PM   #83
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You have to look at the consistent pattern of anti cop rhetoric from Obama

“If police organizations and departments acknowledge that there’s a problem and there’s an issue, then that, too, is going to contribute to real solutions"

" “I see people who mourn for the five officers we lost, but also weep for the families of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile.”

"“I think it is fair to say we will see more tension between police and communities this month, next month, next year, for quite some time.”
Man could you use some support. i've learned, (the hard way), to stay out of these types of discussions. Have to make an exception now and then.

Totally agree with you. The funerals for the Dallas Police Officers were the ultimate for me. Couldn't believe what Obama was saying. Also couldn't believe that the Officers attending didn't get up and turn their backs.

As far as his farewell address, I hope that's finally it. He needs to sail off into the sunset, but unfortunatley, since he'll be residing in Washington, he'll probably be an integral part in reshaping the Democratic party.
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 02:51 PM   #84
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Default Re: President Obama's Farewell Address

I just now read this post as I have been driving all day. In the context of his overall remarks, I fail to see how these particular comments are objectionable.

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You have to look at the consistent pattern of anti cop rhetoric from Obama

“If police organizations and departments acknowledge that there’s a problem and there’s an issue, then that, too, is going to contribute to real solutions"

" “I see people who mourn for the five officers we lost, but also weep for the families of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile.”

"“I think it is fair to say we will see more tension between police and communities this month, next month, next year, for quite some time.”
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 03:26 PM   #85
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To me it would be like George Bush after 9/11 saying "we mourn for the victims, but we have to examine the root causes in our foreign policy most of which is good".
Perhaps, in the non-immediate aftermath of 9/11, GWB would have been better served to have said exactly that rather than using terrorism by Saudi nationals as a pretext for a costly and ill-advised war of conquest in Iraq. Similarly, when some police chiefs purposely encourage or overlook the excesses of frontline officers in their efforts to 'get the bad guys' perhaps they should realize that establishing respect for the law cannot be accomplished by acting outside of it.
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 03:36 PM   #86
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Perhaps, in the non-immediate aftermath of 9/11, GWB would have been better served to have said exactly that rather than using terrorism by Saudi nationals as a pretext for a costly and ill-advised war of conquest in Iraq. Similarly, when some police chiefs purposely encourage or overlook the excesses of frontline officers in their efforts to 'get the bad guys' perhaps they should realize that establishing respect for the law cannot be accomplished by acting outside of it.
The 5 slain Dallas officers did something you don't approve of? Please expand on this.
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 05:07 PM   #87
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The 5 slain Dallas officers did something you don't approve of?
No. What, specifically, drew you to that conclusion?
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 07:23 PM   #88
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Default Re: President Obama's Farewell Address

In the end this is not a proveable fact it is a matter of perspective and views can differ.

I will just say this. Until you are on the receiving end you won't get it.

The though I will leave the naysayers with is this..

Next time you need someone to say sorry but instead they say 'I'm sorry but' you may learn the difference.
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Old Jan 13, 2017, 07:26 PM   #89
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I just now read this post as I have been driving all day. In the context of his overall remarks, I fail to see how these particular comments are objectionable.
It's a matter of timing. Obama NEVER failed to use a tragedy for political agenda.
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Old Jan 14, 2017, 01:21 AM   #90
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Default Re: President Obama's Farewell Address

I suppose you would include his raising the issue of gun control on the occasion of the slaughter of children at Sandy Hook. This is where we differ. I can't think of a better time to raise the issue, and it certainly didn't diminish the his heartfelt message to the parents, friends and families.

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It's a matter of timing. Obama NEVER failed to use a tragedy for political agenda.
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Old Jan 14, 2017, 05:03 AM   #91
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Default Re: President Obama's Farewell Address

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In the end this is not a proveable fact it is a matter of perspective and views can differ.

I will just say this. Until you are on the receiving end you won't get it.

The though I will leave the naysayers with is this..

Next time you need someone to say sorry but instead they say 'I'm sorry but' you may learn the difference.
So, earlier you were making assertions of fact regarding what Obama said, but now it's all subjective and a 'matter of perspective'. Fine. Whatever.

Receiving end of what?

Say sorry for what?
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Old Jan 14, 2017, 05:14 AM   #92
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It's a matter of timing. Politicians NEVER fail to use a tragedy for political agenda.
Fixed it for you.
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Old Jan 14, 2017, 05:21 AM   #93
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In the end this is not a proveable fact it is a matter of perspective and views can differ.

I will just say this. Until you are on the receiving end you won't get it.

The though I will leave the naysayers with is this..

Next time you need someone to say sorry but instead they say 'I'm sorry but' you may learn the difference.
you also posted a graphic where you claimed police deaths are on the rise where they are clearly on the decline. Care to rebut that?
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Old Jan 14, 2017, 08:33 AM   #94
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Fixed it for you.
Please don't bring facts into this debate, you are just making his brain hurt.
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 06:53 AM   #95
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you also posted a graphic where you claimed police deaths are on the rise where they are clearly on the decline. Care to rebut that?

Rose consistently from 2008 to 2016.

But yeah doesn't compare to the 19 thirties
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 07:20 AM   #96
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 07:28 AM   #97
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Rose consistently from 2008 to 2016.

But yeah doesn't compare to the 19 thirties
It rose from 2008-2011. But statistically the trend is downwards over the past 35 years. In fact, over that time the number has dropped in half in that time.
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 08:46 AM   #98
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Rose consistently from 2008 to 2016.
Based on your own sources, how do you support this assertion?
The numbers don't appear to support it. The long-term trend, especially since 2001, is clearly downward.

FWIW, I don't think that heart attacks should be included in any meaningful analysis of police officer deaths. Any occupation which has an element of physical activity would entail risk of physical injury (e.g. firefighters, truck drivers, construction workers), therefore heart attacks are not unique to police work and the inherent dangers of it.
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Old Jan 15, 2017, 11:26 AM   #99
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Rose consistently from 2008 to 2016.

But yeah doesn't compare to the 19 thirties
That is inaccurate.
Police killed by firearms are as follows
2016 63,
2015 39,
2014 48,
2013 31,
2012 48,
2011 68,
2010 59,
2009 47
2008 41

the 2008 number was the lowest number ever recorded.
https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/...29-overall.jpg

Talk about cherry picking numbers.
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