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Be gone with bunker rakes....

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  • #46
    Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

    Originally posted by steveooo View Post
    Stupid idea.
    meh. It is just a piece written by Golf Digest...probably just a filler piece or at most just to get people talking. On that note I must say this has been a good discussion so far. Otter Creek is the only place I've played that didn't groom their bunkers. Only negative I have towards Otter Creek is their defeated attitude in regards to the bunkers. They have opted to put the bunker upkeep on the players hands to an extent. I didn't rake and place there unless I was in a serious footprint even though they called it a 'local rule'. IMO rake and drop is a more acceptable route.

    Originally posted by elmeroil View Post
    I think it's fine the way it is, rake and move on. Obviously it sucks when you land in a bunker that hasn't been raked but that's golf. I enjoy bunkers and the challenge they bring. Some seem fair and some don't. The only time I was actually happy to be in a bunker was in St Thomas this year. Those played just like they do on TV, I quite enjoyed hitting out of them.
    Those bunkers seem hard to find but when you do and you have that shot it almost doesn't seem like a penalty.

    Originally posted by Benz View Post
    Would keeping the flagstick in the hole make the game easier or faster?
    Probably, but is yet another unfair advantage. I feel pretty confident that many solo rounds are played without pulling the pin. I mostly don't pull the pin in my solo rounds but do for birdie shots and longer putts that are 6-12 feet. Shorter and the pin most likely won't effect the putt and longer I generally am 2 putt at best...but I digress.

    Originally posted by Shankopotamus View Post
    Besides the challenge, I think bunkers have a huge impact on the aesthetic quality of a golf course. I'd imagine a course with only grass bunkers would be boring as hell, every hole would look the same. I hate being in the sand, my bunker game is lacking compared to most other aspects of my game, and yet I think it's likely I would never have fallen in love with the game if there were none of the nice white sandy bunkers that add so much to it.
    Hockley Valley is not a boring course and the holes do not look alike. I will agree if many courses went that route it would get a bit dull. Hockley has many elevation changes which helps break the monotony but I can see your point.




    Interesting question would be, how many players don't rake if they feel they are the last ones on the course? ...and how often courses groom their bunkers?
    Last edited by Jayhawker; Nov 21, 2016, 10:04 PM.
    I send pictures ~ through the mail ~ of buried treasures ~ and Humpback whales ~to famous people ~ I do not know ~ I sign "Sincerely, ~ Matthias Doe" ~ I await ~ their response...

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    • #47
      Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

      We are reducing our bunker sqft by 30%. Some will be grassbunkers and other will be transformed to meet existing grades. Some bunkers will be filled in and erased and others will just be reduced in size.

      We spend just as much on bunker maint as we do on greens. And that is just rediculous imo.

      Lots of people dont bother raking some do. So we still maintain them to a high standard because even the non rakers want consistant bunkers. We do bunkers 7 days a week

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      • #48
        Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

        Originally posted by dmcdam View Post
        It only takes a few seconds to rake a bunker. How long might it take if there's an extra stroke or two to get out of a footprint? Or the comebacker when you blast your ball 10 yards over the green due to your crappy lie? I'd say that for 90% of golfers, even a raked bunker is penalty enough.
        I played four rounds last winter at a wel known Scottsdale course that has adopted this practice. The maintenance crew rakes the bunkers every morning. It was surprising to me how infrequently a ball ends up in a footprint. If it happened (I think maybe 3 times for our threesome over 4 rounds), we just rolled it out, then smoothed our footprints with our feet. Most everybody thought it worked well though the course doesn't get a high volume of play. And yes, it seemed to speed play up a bit which golf needs a healthy dose of.

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        • #49
          Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

          Originally posted by bcampb00 View Post
          I played four rounds last winter at a wel known Scottsdale course that has adopted this practice. The maintenance crew rakes the bunkers every morning. It was surprising to me how infrequently a ball ends up in a footprint. If it happened (I think maybe 3 times for our threesome over 4 rounds), we just rolled it out, then smoothed our footprints with our feet. Most everybody thought it worked well though the course doesn't get a high volume of play. And yes, it seemed to speed play up a bit which golf needs a healthy dose of.
          If pace of play is your highest priority, it would probably have been quicker to just play by the Rules and play it as it lies, raking afterwards. In golf, bunkers are hazards and hazards are to be avoided. If you want a better lie, the fairway or green are probably better.
          If you want to play under Tour conditions, get on the Tour, otherwise just accept what you get, and don't expect the Rules to save you!
          Last edited by rulie; Nov 21, 2016, 09:33 PM.

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          • #50
            Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

            Originally posted by rulie View Post
            If pace of play is your highest priority, it would probably have been quicker to just play by the Rules and play it as it lies, raking afterwards. In golf, bunkers are hazards and hazards are to be avoided. If you want a better lie, the fairway or green are probably better.
            If you want to play under Tour conditions, get on the Tour, otherwise just accept what you get, and don't expect the Rules to save you!
            Playing the ball as it lies sounds like what they did except for 3x but that first drive to the hardware store to buy that rake would have killed their pace of play.
            I send pictures ~ through the mail ~ of buried treasures ~ and Humpback whales ~to famous people ~ I do not know ~ I sign "Sincerely, ~ Matthias Doe" ~ I await ~ their response...

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            • #51
              Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

              Some of our traps with less than a half inch of sand over hardpan can't be raked. There's no need to worry about footprints in those hazards. I'll have to get aaagc to teach me how to play out of them.
              This isn't a dress rehearsal. Enjoy yourself. There's no do-over.

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              • #52
                Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

                What a ridiculous article.

                Why have bunkers at all if they aren't going to be maintained? I very much enjoy playing out of bunkers that are consistent and well maintained. For those stating that pros make it look easy, well, they practice these shots and use proper technique. That makes it easier, but definitely is no gimme.
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                • #53
                  Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

                  Originally posted by mpare View Post
                  Some of our traps with less than a half inch of sand over hardpan can't be raked. There's no need to worry about footprints in those hazards. I'll have to get aaagc to teach me how to play out of them.
                  Those aren't bunkers, those are concrete skateboarding half-pipes at Bradford.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

                    I'm in the camp of ridiculous as well, especially when those who can't even replace or fill a divot properly are the same people who can't/won't/don't rake bunkers properly either. I get that bunkers are supposed to be penal, golf is a hard enough game as it is and if you expect to grow the game, don't make it more difficult than it already is for newer folks. Nothing p1sses me off more than ending up in a green-side bunker, only to find my ball in a foot print that looks like it was just left by a phukking sasquatch.

                    As far as I'm concerned, not only should one be allowed to rake and place in an area that has clearly been neglected by a previous player (or staff being too damn lazy to turn a bunker properly), but I'm also of the belief that divots should be considered GUR and the silly rule of "play it as it lies" should be done away with.

                    Too many silly rules in the game of golf as it is.
                    Last edited by racmbs; Nov 22, 2016, 11:17 AM.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

                      If cost is the concern, I know Oshawa made a lot of changes to their bunkers to have more flat bottoms. Less hand raking required that way.

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                      • #56
                        Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

                        Originally posted by racmbs View Post
                        I'm in the camp of ridiculous as well, especially when those who can't even replace or fill a divot properly are the same people who can't/won't/don't rake bunkers properly either. I get that bunkers are supposed to be penal, golf is a hard enough game as it is and if you expect to grow the game, don't make it more difficult than it already is for newer folks. Nothing p1sses me off more than ending up in a green-side bunker, only to find my ball in a foot print that looks like it was just left by a phukking sasquatch.

                        As far as I'm concerned, not only should one be allowed to rake and place in an area that has clearly been neglected by a previous player (or staff being too damn lazy to turn a bunker properly), but I'm also of the belief that divots should be considered GUR and the silly rule of "play it as it lies" should be done away with.

                        Too many silly rules in the game of golf as it is.
                        Agreed on all counts.

                        And for those that say the pros make it look easy, the top guy on tour last year for sand saves was only 62%. The bottom was 38%. There is definitely a penalty assessed, even for the best in the world playing out of immaculately maintained bunkers.
                        10 degree Cobra Fly-Z+ / Matrix White Tie 55X4
                        16 degree Callaway Big Bertha Alpha 815 / Fujikura Speeder 865
                        20 degree Ping Rapture V2 Hybrid / MR JavlinFX
                        4-AW Nike Vapor Pro Combo / DG Pro

                        54, 58 degree Ping Glide / CFS
                        Ping Anser Redwood

                        Srixon ZStar XV



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                        • #57
                          Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

                          But the skills I'm learning playing out of that assortment of goodies are unparalleled.

                          Originally posted by racmbs View Post
                          Those aren't bunkers, those are concrete skateboarding half-pipes at Bradford.
                          Last edited by mpare; Nov 22, 2016, 12:14 PM.
                          This isn't a dress rehearsal. Enjoy yourself. There's no do-over.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

                            Even as little as a dozen years ago, I was fine with playing out of a footprint (angry, yes) because it was so rare. A once a year (or less) occurrence?

                            But with the changing lack of care shown by so many golfers, footprints are all over bunkers all the time. My personal preference (and "local rule" amongst friends) is to just rake and place. And then I rake again, taking care of my own footprints and as many others nearby that I feel like.
                            "Confusion" will be my epitaph
                            ...Iggy

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                            • #59
                              Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

                              Originally posted by Ignatius Reilly View Post
                              Even as little as a dozen years ago, I was fine with playing out of a footprint (angry, yes) because it was so rare. A once a year (or less) occurrence?

                              But with the changing lack of care shown by so many golfers, footprints are all over bunkers all the time. My personal preference (and "local rule" amongst friends) is to just rake and place. And then I rake again, taking care of my own footprints and as many others nearby that I feel like.
                              So you cheat?






















                              BTW: I agree, make it fun, not frustrating

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                              • #60
                                Re: Be gone with bunker rakes....

                                Originally posted by racmbs View Post
                                So you cheat?


                                BTW: I agree, make it fun, not frustrating
                                Of course!

                                I think the rules orgs need to figure something out WRT to the epidemic of footprints, and I don't think "they should have been raked" is good enough.

                                I like to think they will change something, so I'm just ahead of the curve....

                                FWIW - the other big problem is with too many ball marks. I wonder if we should reverse the etiquette on this one: Never fix your ball marks. Would speed things up a bit, and you'd still fix any marks that are in your way no matter who made them or when.
                                "Confusion" will be my epitaph
                                ...Iggy

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