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Old Jun 23, 2007, 07:18 AM   #1
TourIQ
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Default $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

$300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

No these are not my clubs . I only measured each club for consistency over a complete set.

I check the quality level of a $300 TaylorMade RAC OS [Counterfeit] iron set from China.
All 12 shafts were graphite TAYLORMADE R5 SERIES M.A.S2 60, R FLEX [again Counterfeit].

12 clubs, plus all of the accessories [staff bag, shoe bag, head covers, etc.].
The guy who owns them looked real good on the course with his buddies, and he has few dollars invested.
Only a few minor problems to report:
Ø The 4-Iron [24.5° loft] hits longer than does the 3-Iron [29.0° loft]
Note: The 3-Iron will probably break if adjusted for loft to factory specifications
Ø The S-Wedge [51.5° loft] hits a similar distance to the matching 9-iron [51.0° loft]
Ø The 9-Iron is off on lie angle by a full 4.0°, which will greatly impact directional control
Ø A full 5.0 swingweight point spread between the 4-Iron [C8.9] vs. the 7-Iron [D3.9]
Ø Other problems highlighted – refer to the attached file
He also reported he hits the 3 woods [driver + fairway metals] real good but the 5-Wood is a
little short on distance compared to its 3-Metal counterpart. The driver has good distance and control.

Pertaining to this set of counterfeit TM RAC OS irons [3 to SW], a total of
17 of 45 specifications are out of tolerance, for a defect rate of 37.8% or 377,778 ppm.
Now the $42 question … how might these irons actually play?

The owner is entering his 2nd season playing these counterfeit clubs, results of which Increased HIS Stroke Aveage by 10 .

This set will yield significant yardage gap discrepancies club-to-club. % Error [dispersion] will be huge if tested on a mechanical robot. He went from low 90’s to low 100’s after putting this TaylorMade Counterfeit
set into play.


Buyer Beware. If the deal is too good to be true, it probably is

Have you ever had your set checked for its ‘Quality Consistency’ over the compete set, to
determine potential problems with Accuracy and Control?
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Old Jun 23, 2007, 07:25 AM   #2
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

thats quite an eye opener ,another great reason to buy from a reputable dealer or club builder.
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Old Jun 23, 2007, 08:11 AM   #3
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

I would never ever buy a 12 piece set of brand name clubs.. you see so many on craigslist too, trying to sell them for $900 when they costed less than $200. Pathetic ppl
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Old Jun 23, 2007, 02:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by nearace
thats quite an eye opener
Club pictures added
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Old Jun 23, 2007, 03:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

first of all let me say i dont use fakes and would never play fakes, in fact most of my clubs are tour issue - i have many people in my company who travel to china on a regular basis and tell me you can get a full set of fake callaways including putter , bag and travel bag for around $250 - if you are not an avid golfer who just plays a round or 2 a year then i think it is a good deal - these type of golfers have no idea of what is good or not, ie. between an ozik shaft and a piece of string with a club head at the end, and just play for fun, they probably swing and miss the ball as much as they swing and hit it, for these type of people ( who are generally cheap as well ) then a full set for for $250 is a good deal
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Old Jun 23, 2007, 04:29 PM   #6
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

I don't much care if newer/infrequent players can make us of $250 knockoffs. It's still absolutely wrong for people to steal the name of Calloway or anyone else. Make something similar perhaps and put Bob's Golf Company or Chan's Club Manufacturing on them. But don't copy them, name and all. The poor smucks you describe probably don't know the difference and they'll end up trying to sell them to someone who is just beginning to play and that person will think they're getting a great deal off ebay or craiglist when they buy them used for 300 bucks. Did I mention I think it just ain't right. May as well steal a tractor trailer full of real ones and sell them as far as I'm concerned. Just a different form of theft and deceit. imho of course
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Old Jun 23, 2007, 04:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFINGGINO
first of all let me say i dont use fakes and would never play fakes, in fact most of my clubs are tour issue - i have many people in my company who travel to china on a regular basis and tell me you can get a full set of fake callaways including putter , bag and travel bag for around $250 - if you are not an avid golfer who just plays a round or 2 a year then i think it is a good deal - these type of golfers have no idea of what is good or not, ie. between an ozik shaft and a piece of string with a club head at the end, and just play for fun, they probably swing and miss the ball as much as they swing and hit it, for these type of people ( who are generally cheap as well ) then a full set for for $250 is a good deal
that's not the point. it's the same as buying pirated videos and music. you're endorsing an activity that takes hard earned funds out of the companies that do legitimate R&D to develop technology in affordable clubs that enable the average golfers like yourself and myself to buy and use.
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Old Jun 23, 2007, 04:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

A local doctor and surgeon who probably makes $500K+ / year was asking
guys at work who frequent China to buy him a set of $250 counterfeits.
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Old Jun 23, 2007, 05:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

guys wake up, copying happens all the time in all industries, i am into watches, pens and golf clubs and you have to know what you are doing, or you will get screwed - i'm not saying it is right but if the average joe hacker buys a complete set of fakes for $300 and is happy and shoots his 110 then what is the problem, anyone with any sense would realize if the price they are getting it for is 20% of the retail value then something is wrong - a lot of guys i know that have the fakes tell me they are the same as the originals, just alot cheaper - i just smile - i really dont want to heart their feeling
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Old Jun 23, 2007, 07:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFINGGINO
first of all let me say i dont use fakes and would never play fakes, in fact most of my clubs are tour issue - i have many people in my company who travel to china on a regular basis and tell me you can get a full set of fake callaways including putter , bag and travel bag for around $250 - if you are not an avid golfer who just plays a round or 2 a year then i think it is a good deal - these type of golfers have no idea of what is good or not, ie. between an ozik shaft and a piece of string with a club head at the end, and just play for fun, they probably swing and miss the ball as much as they swing and hit it, for these type of people ( who are generally cheap as well ) then a full set for for $250 is a good deal
for the same price I rather buy a full set of ram golf clubs from sportscheck
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Old Jun 24, 2007, 02:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

No wakeup call needed here. As Reptar15 and The Har point out it affects the economy. Just because everybody else is doing it doesn't make it right. It's still theft and it's still wrong.
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Old Jun 24, 2007, 11:30 AM   #12
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

The difference with golf clubs is the performance aspect.

If I buy a fake NBA jersey that is made entirely to spec (down to exact replicas of the tags) it is a lot different than buying a set of fake clubs. The clubs have severe quality and performance issues but the performance of a jersey isn't going to cause harm either way. Same could be said for DVDs. If you are replicating digital media where there is little or no quality loss, then it is a completely different story.

Sure, it is illegal but when was the last time a music label or production company went out of business as a result of pirated media? Last I checked, the NBA was doing ok with their merchandising.

Neil
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Old Jun 24, 2007, 02:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

I just want to add my own sightings of fakes to Tour IQ's warning.

I scrounged through the Kijiji Toronto site (google Kijiji) which in itself is a knockoff of ebay. lol
There are at least 6 sets of Taylor and Callaway fakes trying to be pawned off for an average of $900 and up to $1900!
On fellow admits to selling fake Honmas,but claims his $650 price is cheap compared to the originals he claims are selling for $30,000!
I recognized only one seller dealing in reputable clubs. Yikes!
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Old Jun 24, 2007, 05:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnated
The difference with golf clubs is the performance aspect. If I buy a fake NBA jersey that is made entirely to spec (down to exact replicas of the tags) it is a lot different than buying a set of fake clubs. The clubs have severe quality and performance issues but the performance of a jersey isn't going to cause harm either way. Neil
Hi Neil

You nailed it reincarnated . It's not about saving or losing a few dollars, it's about performance or lack thereof. I could care less if someone had a $3,000 set or only spent $300 or less. Regardless if it's Name Brand or Counterfeit, the China company making the product is only paying their workers $250 USD / month or less

You rarely meet a golfer who doesn't keep score, as this is how the game is played. Most play for fun and the potential of a low round or personal best score, hitting their goal(s) which validates their own improvement. Funny thing about low scores, they don't happen frequent enough

The guy who now owns these China Counterfeits played 20-year old irons before this new set, so they probably had small heads and were harder to hit. His Stroke Average climbed 10 with the new set. He could probably shave a full 15 strokes off his game with new dialled-in equipment.
He could shoot mid-to-high 80's instead of his current low 100's.
Yes Neil, the 'Performance Aspect' as you had stated. Who doesn't love to shoot lower scores, or get significantly more pars and birdies?

The other point is this. What % of the golfers actually know the Actual Quality Characteristics [length, swingweight, frequency, total weight, loft, lie, etc.] of EACH CLUB in their BAG? How many golfers are not getting the full entitlement out of their game which their personal skill and ability has to offer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nearace
thats quite an eye opener ,another great reason to buy from a reputable dealer or club builder.
Hi nearace

Sorry to say there is no guarantee that you are getting what you paid for
Until each club is validated as to its #'s and compared to the rest of the set, you may
not know if you have a quality set or a low quality set plagued with chronic performance issues.


I have never seen a golfer buy a Certifed Set of Name Brand Clubs , so even with the Name Brand I guess it is BUYER BEWARE
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Last edited by TourIQ; Jun 24, 2007 at 07:55 PM. Reason: Automerged posts
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Old Jun 24, 2007, 08:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Great work Harry... you put some numbers on what I have always suspected, especially after hitting some of these sets (i've hit the fake Nike Slingshots, Ping G2, Taylormade R580).

Did you, by any chance, freq the shafts? All over the place as well?
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Old Jun 24, 2007, 08:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Special_K
Great work Harry... you put some numbers on what I have always suspected, especially after hitting some of these sets (i've hit the fake Nike Slingshots, Ping G2, Taylormade R580). Did you, by any chance, freq the shafts? All over the place as well?
Thanks Special_K

I'm glad you liked the research. You need to open the 1st attached file, this shows ALL of the data collected [the good, the bad, and the ugly]

There is a column titled [ Freq. cpm ] with all of the frequency / flex numbers.

For example:
> the Driver > 238 [6.2] = 238 cpm with grip on [6.2 flex = 3 cpm under Stiff-flex]
> the 4-Iron > 282 [4.3] = 282 cpm with grip on [4.3 flex = 2 cpm under Senior-flex]
> the 9-Iron > 315 [5.6] = 315 cpm with grip on [5.6 flex = 1 cpm over Regular-flex]

All DATA COLOUR CODED RED is out of SPECIFICATION. Lots of RED
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Old Jun 25, 2007, 01:35 AM   #17
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

hi harry,
nice six-sigma project. DMAIC.you've documented much thus far DMA, now to "I"....
now if someone had a set of counterfeits, purchased intentionally (eg. the plastic surgeon clearing $half-mill per year and requesting a set from the far east) or otherwise, is there any 'reworking' of these clubs to improve their consistency and thereby performance ... eg. bending to adjust for proper lofts, adjusting swing weights, strategic use of lead tape/powder, drilling out some material, etc..

what i'm askin' is, if someone spends $100 for a set of TM counterfeits, could he take it to a clubmaker and for another $200 have them 'reworked' to better-than-OEM-factory-off-the-shelf?? (i've heard several times about the inconsistency even in OEM off-the-shelf clubs)

thanks.
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Old Jun 25, 2007, 02:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by iyell4
hi harry,
nice six-sigma project. DMAIC.you've documented much thus far DMA, now to "I"....
now if someone had a set of counterfeits, purchased intentionally (eg. the plastic surgeon clearing $half-mill per year and requesting a set from the far east) or otherwise, is there any 'reworking' of these clubs to improve their consistency and thereby performance ... eg. bending to adjust for proper lofts, adjusting swing weights etc..

what i'm askin' is, if someone spends $100 for a set of TM counterfeits, could he take it to a clubmaker and for another $200 have them 'reworked' to better-than-OEM-factory-off-the-shelf?? (i've heard several times about the inconsistency even in OEM off-the-shelf clubs)

thanks.
When I hit fakes, each club "felt" different to me. I suspect the consistency of the metal is way off as well. I also wonder what kind of metal they use in their heads. If this is true, can't fix it!
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Old Jun 25, 2007, 08:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by TourIQ
Note: The 3-Iron will probably break if adjusted for loft to factory specifications?

partially answers my question.
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Old Jun 25, 2007, 10:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by iyell4
partially answers my question.
Hi iyell4 > it blew me away when I measured the 3-Iron at 29* loft and the 6-Iron at 30* loft
I'm afraid the 3-Iron would not cooperate being bent a full 9* of loft.
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Old Jun 25, 2007, 10:35 AM   #21
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by TourIQ
$300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

No these are not my clubs . I only measured each club for consistency over a complete set.

I check the quality level of a $300 TaylorMade RAC OS [Counterfeit] iron set from China.
All 12 shafts were graphite TAYLORMADE R5 SERIES M.A.S2 60, R FLEX [again Counterfeit].

12 clubs, plus all of the accessories [staff bag, shoe bag, head covers, etc.].
The guy who owns them looked real good on the course with his buddies, and he has few dollars invested.
Only a few minor problems to report:
Ø The 4-Iron [24.5° loft] hits longer than does the 3-Iron [29.0° loft]
Note: The 3-Iron will probably break if adjusted for loft to factory specifications
Ø The S-Wedge [51.5° loft] hits a similar distance to the matching 9-iron [51.0° loft]
Ø The 9-Iron is off on lie angle by a full 4.0°, which will greatly impact directional control
Ø A full 5.0 swingweight point spread between the 4-Iron [C8.9] vs. the 7-Iron [D3.9]
Ø Other problems highlighted – refer to the attached file
He also reported he hits the 3 woods [driver + fairway metals] real good but the 5-Wood is a
little short on distance compared to its 3-Metal counterpart. The driver has good distance and control.

Pertaining to this set of counterfeit TM RAC OS irons [3 to SW], a total of
17 of 45 specifications are out of tolerance, for a defect rate of 37.8% or 377,778 ppm.
Now the $42 question … how might these irons actually play?

The owner is entering his 2nd season playing these counterfeit clubs, results of which Increased HIS Stroke Aveage by 10 .

This set will yield significant yardage gap discrepancies club-to-club. % Error [dispersion] will be huge if tested on a mechanical robot. He went from low 90’s to low 100’s after putting this TaylorMade Counterfeit
set into play.


Buyer Beware. If the deal is too good to be true, it probably is

Have you ever had your set checked for its ‘Quality Consistency’ over the compete set, to
determine potential problems with Accuracy and Control?
Another selling point for component equipment. I highly doubt they will ever make cheap copies of Snake Eyes stuff!
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Old Jun 25, 2007, 02:19 PM   #22
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogannut
Another selling point for component equipment. I highly doubt they will ever make cheap copies of Snake Eyes stuff!
Golfsmith doesn't keep their original designs around long enough for the Chinese to even copy their designs
Once the GS Tour Cavity in MLH was discontinued after only 10 months and it was a great head
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 10:56 AM   #23
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysong00
I would never ever buy a 12 piece set of brand name clubs.. you see so many on craigslist too, trying to sell them for $900 when they costed less than $200. Pathetic ppl
Hi ysong00

The OEM Name Brands and the Police need to clamp down on this market locally. In the USA if a parcel crosses a state boarder via USPS it is then a Federal offense. If I unknowlingly bought a counterfeit item [which happens on occasion from eBay], then I want it shipped via USPS, so I have more clout to get them arrested and stopped from ripping off other people. Apparently if its shipped via courier [FedEX, UPS] then the same laws do not apply. I never did the research but read it somewhere on another forum.
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Old Jun 26, 2007, 11:16 AM   #24
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Quote:
Originally Posted by TourIQ
Hi Neil

You nailed it reincarnated . It's not about saving or losing a few dollars, it's about performance or lack thereof. I could care less if someone had a $3,000 set or only spent $300 or less. Regardless if it's Name Brand or Counterfeit, the China company making the product is only paying their workers $250 USD / month or less

You rarely meet a golfer who doesn't keep score, as this is how the game is played. Most play for fun and the potential of a low round or personal best score, hitting their goal(s) which validates their own improvement. Funny thing about low scores, they don't happen frequent enough

The guy who now owns these China Counterfeits played 20-year old irons before this new set, so they probably had small heads and were harder to hit. His Stroke Average climbed 10 with the new set. He could probably shave a full 15 strokes off his game with new dialled-in equipment.
He could shoot mid-to-high 80's instead of his current low 100's.
Yes Neil, the 'Performance Aspect' as you had stated. Who doesn't love to shoot lower scores, or get significantly more pars and birdies?

The other point is this. What % of the golfers actually know the Actual Quality Characteristics [length, swingweight, frequency, total weight, loft, lie, etc.] of EACH CLUB in their BAG? How many golfers are not getting the full entitlement out of their game which their personal skill and ability has to offer?

Hi nearace

Sorry to say there is no guarantee that you are getting what you paid for
Until each club is validated as to its #'s and compared to the rest of the set, you may
not know if you have a quality set or a low quality set plagued with chronic performance issues.


I have never seen a golfer buy a Certifed Set of Name Brand Clubs , so even with the Name Brand I guess it is BUYER BEWARE
\


Wow impressive.
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Old Jun 27, 2007, 06:02 PM   #25
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Default Re: $300 TAYLORMADE RAC OS ‘CHINA COUNTERFEIT’ - BUYER BEWARE

Great Report Harry,

It amazes me how some people knowingly buy this stuff and think they are getting the same specs as the originals!

Well, come to think of it, in many cases they are!

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