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Old May 23, 2011, 08:43 AM   #1
Kevo
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Default Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

It was interesting to watch Peter Kostis do his swing analysis of Charlie Wi at The Colonial on the weekend. Charlie Wi is a devout Stack and Tilt disciple and IMO seems to be striking the ball very good. So Kostis talked a lot about spine angles and writs etc and how good a ball striker WI was, but never once mentioned Stack and Tilt.
Can anyone tell me why the mainstream golf world shun the S &T method so much? I have used part of it in my game, and my contact certainly improved.
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Old May 23, 2011, 09:38 AM   #2
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

because it make the rest of them with their weight shift ideas look silly.
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Old May 23, 2011, 09:48 AM   #3
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

I don't know if it's stack and tilt... but sometimes I pre-load the weight onto my front foot to assist in getting over. I find it helps me get the ball in the air and make better contact if I'm not getting over on time in my regular swing.
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Old May 23, 2011, 10:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
It was interesting to watch Peter Kostis do his swing analysis of Charlie Wi at The Colonial on the weekend. Charlie Wi is a devout Stack and Tilt disciple and IMO seems to be striking the ball very good. So Kostis talked a lot about spine angles and writs etc and how good a ball striker WI was, but never once mentioned Stack and Tilt.
Can anyone tell me why the mainstream golf world shun the S &T method so much? I have used part of it in my game, and my contact certainly improved.
When you used it did you reduce the amount of lateral motion that you had? Very often making a change like that will lead to a 'calmer' swing with fewer moving parts. It may not be so much that S&T is better than other methods it may just have helped you with your main problem. I teach a limited turn swing with a very quiet body in the backswing. That works wonders for many people for the simple reason that it leads to a very quiet swing with fewer moving parts.
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Old May 23, 2011, 11:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

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Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
It was interesting to watch Peter Kostis do his swing analysis of Charlie Wi at The Colonial on the weekend.
If anyone ever sees this posted. Post a link !

Quote:
Charlie Wi is a devout Stack and Tilt disciple and IMO seems to be striking the ball very good. So Kostis talked a lot about spine angles and wrists etc and how good a ball striker WI was, but never once mentioned Stack and Tilt.
He sure looks S&T here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlCvFU6V-3o

Quote:
Can anyone tell me why the mainstream golf world shun the S&T method so much? I have used part of it in my game, and my contact certainly improved.
I think the one thing that really has caught on about the S&T is the idea that you don't need alot of lateral movement on the backswing to create good power.

I've been watching the Foley DVD and it seems like a S&T Lite version. I also have the S&T DVD and I look forward to watching that and comparing !

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Old May 24, 2011, 01:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

C Wi/CBS/Crowne Invitational
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNZiqpp6DqE

Euro Comments on SnT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk-rrnfY78Q



Last edited by nevets88; May 24, 2011 at 01:59 AM. Reason: z
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Old May 24, 2011, 06:25 AM   #7
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golftime View Post
When you used it did you reduce the amount of lateral motion that you had? Very often making a change like that will lead to a 'calmer' swing with fewer moving parts. It may not be so much that S&T is better than other methods it may just have helped you with your main problem. I teach a limited turn swing with a very quiet body in the backswing. That works wonders for many people for the simple reason that it leads to a very quiet swing with fewer moving parts.
To Golftime / John Caughill
It certainly stopped me swaying off the ball and then trying to re-center and hitting it fat.
The semi straightening of the right leg also increased my hip turn and by extension my shoulder turn which result in less moving parts and much more speed into the ball. I used to swing a bit more vertical and this is a bit more flatter. As mentioned my consistency in ball striking has improved
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Old May 24, 2011, 06:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

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Thanks for the you tube clips...interesting to see the Euro's talk About S & T and the Americans pretend like it doesn't exist
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Old May 24, 2011, 07:26 AM   #9
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

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Thanks for the you tube clips...interesting to see the Euro's talk About S & T and the Americans pretend like it doesn't exist
For that matter how many times does Sean Foley mention Sand T in his DVD?

Perhaps its because if you tout S&T in your instruction your students might decide to go to an S&T instructor instead and hear it from the horse's mouth?

A more generous interpretation would be be that S&T, like hundreds of golf ideas before that, all contribute to a better understanding of the golf swing, and you take some concepts from it without committing totally to that method alone. Keeping you weight centred over the ball seems to be the one aspect that has worked its way into most modern golf instruction.
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Old May 24, 2011, 08:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
It was interesting to watch Peter Kostis do his swing analysis of Charlie Wi at The Colonial on the weekend. Charlie Wi is a devout Stack and Tilt disciple and IMO seems to be striking the ball very good. So Kostis talked a lot about spine angles and writs etc and how good a ball striker WI was, but never once mentioned Stack and Tilt.
Can anyone tell me why the mainstream golf world shun the S &T method so much? I have used part of it in my game, and my contact certainly improved.
Not sure why it would matter that he mentions stack and tilt.

Personally, when a couple players left the S&T camp, Charlie made some pretty bold comments about them. At that point I lost a bit of respect for Mr. Wi.

http://scoregolf.com/blog/bob-weeks/...-Weir-Baddeley

http://www.thestar.com/sports/golf/a...rips-into-weir

http://tsn.ca/golf/story/?id=333328
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Old May 25, 2011, 10:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
It was interesting to watch Peter Kostis do his swing analysis of Charlie Wi at The Colonial on the weekend. Charlie Wi is a devout Stack and Tilt disciple and IMO seems to be striking the ball very good. So Kostis talked a lot about spine angles and writs etc and how good a ball striker WI was, but never once mentioned Stack and Tilt.
Can anyone tell me why the mainstream golf world shun the S &T method so much? I have used part of it in my game, and my contact certainly improved.
What do you mean by part of it?
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Old May 25, 2011, 02:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

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What do you mean by part of it?
SnT can be implemented in pieces, you don't have to do all of it. One of the pieces is called braking I believe, an abrupt stop at the end of the swing.

If you look at the videos of SnT students on YouTube (Dahlquist for example), not all of them do this, but you would say their swing is definitely SnT.

Some people just do weight forward, shoulder down as opposed to weight forward, shoulder down, hands in, straighten arms, tuck hips.

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Old May 25, 2011, 03:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

Thanks for the post, Samick... I wanted to know what Wi said about Weir.
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Old May 26, 2011, 01:52 AM   #14
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

I think Wi did get the short end of the conversation when he proffered his opinion on their defection from the S&T camp.
It was a media learning experience for him. I think the banal "I gave 110%" speech is still the best defense for athletes who have a mic shoved in their face by some unknown who hopes to cherry some breaking "news".
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Old May 26, 2011, 03:34 AM   #15
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

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I think Wi did get the short end of the conversation when he proffered his opinion on their defection from the S&T camp.
It was a media learning experience for him. I think the banal "I gave 110%" speech is still the best defense for athletes who have a mic shoved in their face by some unknown who hopes to cherry some breaking "news".

I don't agree with this at all. Wi has dealt with, and been around the media long enough to know that whatever he says can and will most likely come back to bite him in the rear. He chose to say what he did, which wasnt very smart. A little common sense and respect for others is all thats needed.

I understand he was trying to stand up for his instructors, but he didnt have to go in that direction.
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Old May 26, 2011, 05:25 AM   #16
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

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... He chose to say what he did, which wasnt very smart. A little common sense and respect for others is all thats needed.

I understand he was trying to stand up for his instructors, but he didnt have to go in that direction.
Every time someone rips S&T, they rip everyone in the camp, players included. It can get to these guys, so Charlie likes to put his coaches in the spotlight when he can, because they really are that good. Charlie also calls it like he sees it so when he's on the leaderboard and on tv, he'll be blunt. Stand up guy that Charlie Wi. I hope he keeps it up.
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Old May 26, 2011, 06:57 AM   #17
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

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Every time someone rips S&T, they rip everyone in the camp, players included. It can get to these guys, so Charlie likes to put his coaches in the spotlight when he can, because they really are that good. Charlie also calls it like he sees it so when he's on the leaderboard and on tv, he'll be blunt. Stand up guy that Charlie Wi. I hope he keeps it up.
The next Johnny Miller maybe.
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Old May 26, 2011, 07:15 AM   #18
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

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Originally Posted by NickStarchuk View Post
Every time someone rips S&T, they rip everyone in the camp, players included. It can get to these guys, so Charlie likes to put his coaches in the spotlight when he can, because they really are that good. Charlie also calls it like he sees it so when he's on the leaderboard and on tv, he'll be blunt. Stand up guy that Charlie Wi. I hope he keeps it up.
While I will agree that people rip down S&T, and the players that use the system, I can't say I agree with the thoughts on Charlie.

If you want to call him a stand up guy for ripping on Weir, thats your opinion. I just think that he could have used that time to promote S&T in a more positive light. Saying that Weir was one of the worst ballstrikers on tour before his S&T days is a complete crock. He was actually known for his ballstriking and one of the best wedge players in the game.

All that was needed if asked specifically about Weir and Badds leaving S&T, was "I'm not sure about why they left, but I have had great success in S&T and will continue to do so as it has improved.....yadda yadda yadda..." instead of spewing about how bad they were at ballstriking etc.

It wreaks of sour grapes and a whiner. IMHO.
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Old May 26, 2011, 06:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

nevets88: thanks for the videos.

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All that was needed if asked specifically about Weir and Badds leaving S&T, was "I'm not sure about why they left, but I have had great success in S&T and will continue to do so as it has improved.....yadda yadda yadda..." instead of spewing about how bad they were at ballstriking etc.
His comments were certainly not diplomatic.
He's abrasive. He's passionate. He mistakenly took Weir and Badds leaving S&T as an attack on his teachers and his methods. He got needlessly defensive.
But I'm not sure the comments were malicious.
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Old Jun 1, 2011, 10:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

I would have to say conventional instructors rip on S&T because they are scared that if the technique becomes popular, then most people will go to S&T instructors.

S&T may not be the best for tour players who play 7200 yd courses, but it may be a better swing for weekend warriors who play 6200 yd courses. But because there is a stigma associated with S&T, many of us are reluctant to even try it.....
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Old Jun 2, 2011, 05:17 PM   #21
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Default Re: Stack & Tilt and Charlie Wi

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While I will agree that people rip down S&T, and the players that use the system, I can't say I agree with the thoughts on Charlie.

If you want to call him a stand up guy for ripping on Weir, thats your opinion. I just think that he could have used that time to promote S&T in a more positive light. Saying that Weir was one of the worst ballstrikers on tour before his S&T days is a complete crock. He was actually known for his ballstriking and one of the best wedge players in the game.

All that was needed if asked specifically about Weir and Badds leaving S&T, was "I'm not sure about why they left, but I have had great success in S&T and will continue to do so as it has improved.....yadda yadda yadda..." instead of spewing about how bad they were at ballstriking etc.

It wreaks of sour grapes and a whiner. IMHO.
Yes, Charles really did drop the hammer on MW and AB but they left the group. Those guys are a crew.. they hang together and practice together and those 2 guys left. I hear your sour grapes comment for sure.

charlie is proud to be involved in this.. he's invested and branded himself and people are bashing him and maybe worse, coming in and leaving the group after showing measurable improvements. There's a complete misunderstood mentality that the general public don't see.

BTW.. weir was a terrible ball striker with long toys and got progressively better as the sticks got shorter. MW has had 2 way misses his whole career. I hope we see him back soon.
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