What’s a good driver shaft that plays stiff but has ‘kick’?

[Boardoftrade]

I have a Hzrdus Yellow 6.5 in my driver and it feels like I’m swinging a telephone pole. I was fit for the shaft, and although the results it produces are fine, even my best drives don’t feel rewarding coming off the face.

My driver swing speed is 110-115mph. My miss tends to be a hook.

I have Project X LZ 6.5’s in my irons and love the feeling of ‘kick’ they give me. I see there is a Project X LZ driver shaft, but I have no idea if it has that smooth ‘kick’ the LZ irons produce.

Any thoughts on a shaft that plays stiff but yet remains smooth and has ‘kick’?

Thanks,

Mike

[Jasonp]

Shafts that have that centrezone kick are
PX Evenflow Blue and Black. The even flow blue doesnt play stiff though.
Fujikura Pro Xlr8 (only the real deal does. The made for does not) -nice kick and plays stiff
Fujikura Pro TS has a kick but its more of a smoother kick throughout the shaft vs that noticeable feel you get with the LZ iron shafts. Bit less kick then the xlr8 as its not as pronounced plays even stiffer then the xlr8 tech.

There is a GD but i cant for the life of me remember what it is.

[Weirfan]

At OP

start here

http://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wishon-talking-to-wrx-readers-10-myths-about-shafts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/

[johnnybiarritz]

What are the numbers with the shaft? For 110-115mph head speed, you're probably getting about 260 yards in carry...is that about right? I guess the real question is whether or not feel is more important than performance.

Also...how were you fit for the shaft and who did it? There is a lot more to shaft fitting than just head speed. About 12 years ago when I was in the golf business, I went to a training for the True Temper Shaft Lab fitting system (it doesn't really exist anymore). I saw a player who played on the (then) Nationwide Tour get fitted for a "A" (Senior) flex shaft with 125mph swing speed because he had a really smooth motion from the top. He picked up 15 yards of distance with on loss of control.

[Ruska]

Have you tried a Speeder 661 or 757 Tour Spec?

[crazyballa9999]

I like the shafts mentioned here and have the same swing speed etc .I have the LZ driver shaft in 6.0 and I found the the 55 gram handcrafted 16 6.0 was too light or smooth with too much kick. I still keep it as a go to but my favs are still the Accra blue series in m4 or the old school yst6+

[Jasonp]

Thats it the YS6+ is the GD that has a distinctive kick. There is a newer version of it...kinda.

The 757 tourspec is smooth but doesnt have that mule like kick PX LZs have.

[johnnybiarritz]

So, back to the question, who fit you? "Kick" is feel, not performance. I only fit 100 or so people for clubs when I was in the business, so I'm far from a master at club fitting. But statistics don't lie. "Kick" or not, there's a shaft out there that will find the best combination of launch angle and spin. Statistics bear out that you want higher launch and lower spin. Bubba Watson has about 16 degree launch angle and about 1900rpm of spin, so you want to get close to that. But if you honestly got really FIT to the Hzrdus shaft and it wasn't just some well meaning "club fitter" who basically just licked his thumb and said "yeah, that looks about right" then you're not going to find better, regardless of "kick", whatever that means.

[storm]

So, back to the question, who fit you? "Kick" is feel, not performance. I only fit 100 or so people for clubs when I was in the business, so I'm far from a master at club fitting. But statistics don't lie. "Kick" or not, there's a shaft out there that will find the best combination of launch angle and spin. Statistics bear out that you want higher launch and lower spin. Bubba Watson has about 16 degree launch angle and about 1900rpm of spin, so you want to get close to that. But if you honestly got really FIT to the Hzrdus shaft and it wasn't just some well meaning "club fitter" who basically just licked his thumb and said "yeah, that looks about right" then you're not going to find better, regardless of "kick", whatever that means.

I agree with most of what you said. If you were fit for the HZRDUS and the results are good, leave it alone. What feels the best doesnt always produce the best results. And you don't want a 16* LA and a 1900 RPM...hes hitting a 6.5* driver with a 44 1/2" shaft and really swings up on the ball. I think majority of us can agree on a 12*ish LA and around 3200RPM seems to be a good benchmark for the majority. I was "fit" for a Ping Tour 65X in a G400 Max head....was refit by Ping and put into a HZRDUS Yellow 75 6.5 and Ping G400 LST head. The Ping Tour shaft "felt" amazing but produced 5900RPM of spin and a 15* LA...the other set up I am seeing 12* and 3600RPM, going down a degree gets it to the high 2000's. Obviously the higher the swing speens, the lower the desired launch and spin will be, slower swing speeds will have a higher desired launch and spin. I think...

[johnnybiarritz]

So, I did some quick calculations using this site: https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/ I put in a few different variables, it's certainly not a comprehensive list, but you can get an idea. For any ball speed calculated, distance works on a curve. There is an ideal launch angle and spin for each speed...in general, launch angle should be higher than we think. The difficulty is, it's nearly impossible to find "ideal." But for nearly everyone, launch the ball higher and with less spin.

[Boardoftrade]

Wow, all very helpful and insightful. Thanks!! I have a question at the bottom of this message that I’m curious about and probably differs greatly between everyone on the site.

To answer some of the questions above:

-My carry distance is what you mentioned above, in the 265 range.

-I got a ‘long game’ fitting at TXG 6 months or so ago. I ended up only buying a 3 wood from them, and then took their advice on shafts and got the LZ 6.5’s. I’m happy with both of those purchases. My best driver numbers during my fitting were with a M4 head and Hzrdus Yellow 6.5 shaft. I didn’t buy a driver until about a week ago (6 months after the fitting and not bought through TXG). I did make a slight swing change to lessen my big left miss after the fitting, and I don’t doubt that’s a factor.

-My numbers are good (nothing groundbreaking) with the new driver. But, I find myself over swinging in order to any feedback or kick from the shaft.

-I honestly think I would happier hitting my driver, or any club for that matter, 5% less optimally provided I got the rewarding ‘feel’ I’m looking for.

-I haven’t tried the Speeder shaft or the other ones listed above but am looking forward to getting my hands on the ones you guys have suggested and seeing what works for me.

QUESTION- How much less optimally would you accept a golf club performing (I said 5%) provided it meets all of your non data driven factors (feel, appearance, sound, manufacturer loyalty, exclusiveness, etc.)?????????????????

[storm]

QUESTION- How much less optimally would you accept a golf club performing (I said 5%) provided it meets all of your non data driven factors (feel, appearance, sound, manufacturer loyalty, exclusiveness, etc.)????????????????

Interesting fact here that I heard through Ping, "feel" is 80% sound. They did a test with someone with earplugs on hitting eye 2's, eye2 nickles and eye 2 becus. Heads were painted so the tester couldnt tell by looks. After he hit them all, they couldnt tell what iron was what. When he took the earplugs out and hit again, he knew what was nickle, what was becu and what was the normal eye2. I cant verify if this is true or not. If it was me, its 100% performance. I dont care if it feels like a board and sounds like a frying pan, if i am hitting good shots then I will use it. The question you are asking only you can answer

[johnnybiarritz]

Wow, all very helpful and insightful. Thanks!! I have a question at the bottom of this message that I’m curious about and probably differs greatly between everyone on the site.

QUESTION- How much less optimally would you accept a golf club performing (I said 5%) provided it meets all of your non data driven factors (feel, appearance, sound, manufacturer loyalty, exclusiveness, etc.)?????????????????

Sound, for me, would make a huge difference. I remember 10 years ago when the square heads were a thing for about 10 months, I wouldn't have played one of those clubs unless it gave huge improvement because the sound was so terrible. Appearance would make a bit of difference. The rest, not really.

What kind of swing tempo do you have? There are so many variables that go into shaft fitting, I'm hesitant to really comment much. It's why I asked who did the fitting. A lot of guys are really well meaning, but they're not afforded the opportunity to really be educated about fitting; I know I wasn't, I learned a bunch because I was kind of a nerd and just asked questions to anyone I met and read everything I could find. TXG seems good, but I haven't worked with them myself. It might be that you have a high swing speed and ball speed, but really smooth tempo for loading the shaft, thus need a weaker flex to really optimize it. Could be the swing weight is too low, which can be caused by many factors, and that makes the shaft feel stiffer. It could be that the 6.5 shaft you were sent in the club wasn't the same as the one you tested. Could be something else.

If you have somewhere to go where you can just goof around and test a bunch of Taylor Made shafts, it might be worth it to try.

[Jasonp]

PX Hzrdus Yellow and.Black are probably 2 of the stoutest feeling shafts there are. Nothing smooth feeling about them.

Feel is partially sound for those saying that but shafts are a massive difference as well.

Hit different shafts in the same head and tell me they dont feel different.

Aa for sub optimal it depends what you consider 5% less.

5% less distance but youre more consistent because you arent swi ging as hard sure.

5% more dispersion for better feel...also depends. Did we eliminate one side of the course or are we now spraying?

Youll feel more confident withashaft that suits your ideal feel.

[Phatchrisrules]

-My numbers are good (nothing groundbreaking) with the new driver. But, I find myself over swinging in order to any feedback or kick from the shaft.

Here is the reason why the HZRDUS Yellow feels bad and the LZ in your irons don't:



Notice the difference in the bend profiles, as the Yellow starts off extremely butt stiff drops significantly in stiffness below the hands, and then gets stupid stiff in the lower quarter of the shaft again. It is a very, very unique shaft profile designed basically for guys that LOVE to pull down with their hands and in drivers with super heavy heads to combat this.

If you like the feel of the LZ, you would be far better off going to something like a Kuro Kage, an Aldila NV, an Accra Concept Series, or if you really want to get rid of your hook, a Tensei Orange. A Graphite Design MJ and a Fujikura Pro would also be good options too...you would just need to go heavier weight in order to combat spin on those two.

However, my guess is if you like the LZ then you are probably fairly shallow through the ball to slightly positive AoA with the driver and probably only slightly negative with the irons. The EI profile you describe you like the feel of typically feels good to guys that don't have a lot of shaft lag through the ball otherwise the kick you feel would feel almost too much.