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  • #16
    As mentioned in some SL threads, people still tend to over swing the longer irons ( lower lofted ), even if there is no need. The dynamic implications of this is interesting in terms of shaft flex, lie angle, imparted spin, etc. One can either "un-learn" overswinging, or make some accommodations to the hardware.

    To do a dynamic fitting for every club in the bag is time-consuming / costly for a paying customer. I have my own Maltby Loft-Lie machine now, and easy access to a GC2 at my instructors, so I can do this myself. Though I personally futz with swing-weight far too much, but think I have established a happy-spot now.
    WITB: Sun Mountain 5.5LS
    Cobra F8+ with NV 2KXV 65-Regular
    Callaway 816 14* with Kurokage TiNi 50 Stiff
    Titleist 915HD 20.5* with Accra FX300H

    Mizuno MP-18 MMC 4-PW with C-Taper R+ ( SL & TLT )
    Mizuno JPX-900F 50* with Accra i110
    Nike VR Pro 54* & 60* with Accra i110
    Edel E-3 Putter with Pure grip
    Nike RZN Platinum/Black

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by bl8d View Post
      keeping your most lofted irons and wedges at the same flex and length is basically another means of adhering to a consistent same stance and a feel.
      I'm suse Dan can, but most custom shops cannot maintain the 'same flex' when building wedges to constant length, due to the significant change in head weight from P/G to S/L wedge heads.

      Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
      Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
      Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Jasonp View Post
        my only question and i mean no disrespect as i use TLT. But isnt there a lot of new research showing lie angles should be dynamically fit.

        I agree with the length part of the math model and i agree the notion of std .5* lie changes are incorrect with OEMs.

        I agree its a good start however u see many individuals now with lie angle variances that sometimes go .75* from 1 club then 1* next club. And others without much change.
        This has been my take on how to correct swing issues for a long time. The way I build clubs is first by doing the TLT fitting with a 4 at 58, a 7 at 61 and a PW at 64 - all from my mini sets for fitting. The TLT hand position will remain constant as well as your athletic address position.

        After having the chance to play a TLT set for a few rounds all the consistency that I have been trying to drive into my player is finally taking shape. By me forcing the issue to get you athletic - and keeping you there - swing planes now become very repeatable. By setting up the math model to each player - then adjusting the length and lie specifications to be dialed into my TLT specs - a very consistent ball flight is what 99% of my players see. Yes we all execute bloopers but feedback from a great many players - of all levels id - consistency in ball flight direction has never been better.

        By dynamically fitting each individual club - you are doing so with a less than consistent swing. By having bending these clubs in this random fashion you have dialed in todays ball flight. So if the 7 is 61, the 8 is 60.5 and the 9 is 62 - you are forcing yourself into some form of compensation to get the ball to fly in a consistent manner.

        By me driving consistency into your set - you are forced to develop consistency into your swing, swing plane, release ..... Why would anyone ever think that a randomness in your clubs can or would ever out perform consistency in a set that was dialed in to your most athletic address position and force you to stay there.

        Now with saying that I too may keep a wedge a dot on the flat side. When I play a 65* wedges I do tend to move the ball to the left. This becomes something I address with the individual player. Yes it strays from the model as we don't always load these clubs as much as a fairway iron. This is the only time I stray from the math model.
        Regards
        Dan

        Dan's Custom Golf Shop - Sponsor
        True Length Technology TM
        Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
        True Frequency Technology TM
        - Developer / Owner

        Maltby Clubmaking Academy
        - Master
        Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
        - Advanced / Professional
        Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
        - Class 'A'

        Phone : 905-263-8510
        Hampton, ON
        Appointment only
        Web site www.truelengthtechnology.com
        E-mail: danscustomgolfshop@hotmail.com

        Comment


        • #19
          It makes perfect sense to me dan. I think you took it a bit too far abstract as your example would be indicitve of some big swing flaws. a better example would have been something like a

          1* lie angle changes from the 4i to 6i theb .75* from 7i to 8i. And only .5 for 9i and wedges. Some pros have builds like this ..look at tigers build sheet.

          http://www.golfwrx.com/11259/tiger-w...his-every-day/
          Driver---Taylormade M3 (8.5) Aldila NV 2KXV Orange 6X 45"
          3W------Taylormade M3 (16) Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X 43.25"
          5W------Taylormade M3 (19) Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X 42.25"
          3i-------Taylormade TP UDI (20.5) Dynamic Gold X100
          Irons------Maltby MMB-17 4-PW Modus 3 125X
          Wedges---Cleveland RTX 3 (52/MG) & Taylormade Hi-Toe (60) Modus 3 125X/Modus 3 125 Wedge
          Putter-----Taylormade Spider Tour Black (DJ) 34" SS Pistol GTR

          Comment


          • #20
            Although the math model is better than the old model sometimes dynamic fitting could be required at the extremes of the set.
            Reason being spin loft

            Thanks to Bl8d I came across this article and found it most interesting:

            https://www.si.com/vault/1983/08/08/...e-they-cricket

            Especially the following:

            Jacobs redesigned the golf club to correct those errors. A slice is caused by imparting sidespin to the ball, the result of an outside-in swing. Fairway woods and medium irons—the duffer's best clubs—are more difficult to slice because of their increased loft. Greater loft allows the club face to make contact at a lower spot on the ball, thus imparting more backspin than sidespin. Jacobs increased the loft on the woods and long irons to take advantage of this. To compensate for the higher trajectory and loss of distance, he repositioned the weight of the club higher in the face. Jacobs also made the lie of the club more upright, the lie being the angle formed by the shaft and the heel of the club head when the latter is on the ground.
            And there must be a reason why Cobra modified the lie angles(not the same across the set) in their 2018 F8 one length.
            ( More upright in lower lofts and flatter in higher lofts-More offset in the lower lofted clubs)



            RĂ©sultats de recherche d'images pour «Â*cobra f8 one length specsÂ*»

            Comment


            • #21
              I just had a look at that chart and it would be interesting to see the total weight of each club, steel shafted and graphite version..

              interesting that the lie configuration is the inverse of the norm, namely descending from upright to flat vs. the more familiar flat to upright.

              Dan can you think of any possible reasoning behind that?
              Things change.

              Ping i25, PWR75 s
              Ping i25 3w Accra Tour Z LS M4
              Ping i25 5w PWR75s
              Ping ISI 3-pw Z-z65
              Ping ISI W2, W3
              Cal i-Trax

              Comment


              • #22
                There is no logic to this whatsoever. It is simply a bad design model IMO. Length and lie keep you athletic. This model will have players hooking long irons or simply standing taller due to the upright long irons. Both defeating the purpose of SL.

                There is no logical progression in this design. First off a 37.5" - 61.5* lie is a very long and flat PW, then a 37.5" 63.5* lie 4 iron will have you stand completly different or deal with hooks.

                All is relative to the size of the player, but this design will not perform as intended and will not promote either a singular address nor good directional control.
                Regards
                Dan

                Dan's Custom Golf Shop - Sponsor
                True Length Technology TM
                Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
                True Frequency Technology TM
                - Developer / Owner

                Maltby Clubmaking Academy
                - Master
                Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
                - Advanced / Professional
                Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
                - Class 'A'

                Phone : 905-263-8510
                Hampton, ON
                Appointment only
                Web site www.truelengthtechnology.com
                E-mail: danscustomgolfshop@hotmail.com

                Comment


                • #23
                  Any reason behind Tiger having about a 1/4 to 1/2* change in lie for long irons then 1* for short except his 9 and wedges are all the same lie except his wedges are a 9i length.
                  Driver---Taylormade M3 (8.5) Aldila NV 2KXV Orange 6X 45"
                  3W------Taylormade M3 (16) Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X 43.25"
                  5W------Taylormade M3 (19) Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X 42.25"
                  3i-------Taylormade TP UDI (20.5) Dynamic Gold X100
                  Irons------Maltby MMB-17 4-PW Modus 3 125X
                  Wedges---Cleveland RTX 3 (52/MG) & Taylormade Hi-Toe (60) Modus 3 125X/Modus 3 125 Wedge
                  Putter-----Taylormade Spider Tour Black (DJ) 34" SS Pistol GTR

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Wedges at 9 length - I agree completely. Sorry but I know nothing about Tigers lengths and lie angles.
                    Regards
                    Dan

                    Dan's Custom Golf Shop - Sponsor
                    True Length Technology TM
                    Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
                    True Frequency Technology TM
                    - Developer / Owner

                    Maltby Clubmaking Academy
                    - Master
                    Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
                    - Advanced / Professional
                    Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
                    - Class 'A'

                    Phone : 905-263-8510
                    Hampton, ON
                    Appointment only
                    Web site www.truelengthtechnology.com
                    E-mail: danscustomgolfshop@hotmail.com

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bl8d View Post
                      I just had a look at that chart and it would be interesting to see the total weight of each club, steel shafted and graphite version..

                      interesting that the lie configuration is the inverse of the norm, namely descending from upright to flat vs. the more familiar flat to upright.
                      If 80% or more of the golfing population slice the ball then it makes perfect sense to have more upright low lofted long irons.
                      ( see link https://www.si.com/vault/1983/08/08/...e-they-cricket)
                      The reason why the wedges are flatter is because the length is a lot longer than a standard PW.
                      In a standard set the 7 iron is usually around 61.5 degrees. If you were to build a club @37.50 with a 64* lie angle( 37.50 is with the Cobra Connect sensor BTW) you'd end up pulling every shot to the left and even more so if you have a coming over the top move.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TLT Dan View Post
                        There is no logic to this whatsoever. It is simply a bad design model IMO. Length and lie keep you athletic. This model will have players hooking long irons or simply standing taller due to the upright long irons. Both defeating the purpose of SL.

                        There is no logical progression in this design. First off a 37.5" - 61.5* lie is a very long and flat PW, then a 37.5" 63.5* lie 4 iron will have you stand completly different or deal with hooks.
                        All is relative to the size of the player, but this design will not perform as intended and will not promote either a singular address nor good directional control.
                        thankyou, my thoughts as well.

                        one length- one lie -one player's preferred total weight ,is what I was thinking.
                        Things change.

                        Ping i25, PWR75 s
                        Ping i25 3w Accra Tour Z LS M4
                        Ping i25 5w PWR75s
                        Ping ISI 3-pw Z-z65
                        Ping ISI W2, W3
                        Cal i-Trax

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TLT Dan View Post
                          Wedges at 9 length - I agree completely. Sorry but I know nothing about Tigers lengths and lie angles.
                          I posted a link above to tigers exact build sheet.
                          Driver---Taylormade M3 (8.5) Aldila NV 2KXV Orange 6X 45"
                          3W------Taylormade M3 (16) Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X 43.25"
                          5W------Taylormade M3 (19) Fujikura Atmos Red Tour Spec 7X 42.25"
                          3i-------Taylormade TP UDI (20.5) Dynamic Gold X100
                          Irons------Maltby MMB-17 4-PW Modus 3 125X
                          Wedges---Cleveland RTX 3 (52/MG) & Taylormade Hi-Toe (60) Modus 3 125X/Modus 3 125 Wedge
                          Putter-----Taylormade Spider Tour Black (DJ) 34" SS Pistol GTR

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jasonp View Post
                            It makes perfect sense to me dan. I think you took it a bit too far abstract as your example would be indicitve of some big swing flaws. a better example would have been something like a

                            1* lie angle changes from the 4i to 6i theb .75* from 7i to 8i. And only .5 for 9i and wedges. Some pros have builds like this ..look at tigers build sheet.

                            http://www.golfwrx.com/11259/tiger-w...his-every-day/
                            Not too sure I believe what this sheet is saying, As an example the sheet says he plays a 49* lofted PW - the spec on this model is 45*. Not sure Tiger would de-loft his PW 4* adding 4* more bounce when everyone else is playing stronger lofts. Just seems too extreme. It also says it was published 7 years ago on Feb 12, 2012?

                            Also not sure that this 6' (2") or (3") man is playing a 35 11/16 wedges / 9 iron. He certainly does not look crouched when watching him play. Keegan Bradley - yes he looks like his is playing a tiny short wedge, but not Tiger.
                            Last edited by TLT Dan; Oct 18, 2018, 07:22 PM.
                            Regards
                            Dan

                            Dan's Custom Golf Shop - Sponsor
                            True Length Technology TM
                            Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
                            True Frequency Technology TM
                            - Developer / Owner

                            Maltby Clubmaking Academy
                            - Master
                            Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
                            - Advanced / Professional
                            Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
                            - Class 'A'

                            Phone : 905-263-8510
                            Hampton, ON
                            Appointment only
                            Web site www.truelengthtechnology.com
                            E-mail: danscustomgolfshop@hotmail.com

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Tintin View Post

                              If 80% or more of the golfing population slice the ball then it makes perfect sense to have more upright low lofted long irons.
                              ( see link https://www.si.com/vault/1983/08/08/...e-they-cricket)
                              The reason why the wedges are flatter is because the length is a lot longer than a standard PW.
                              In a standard set the 7 iron is usually around 61.5 degrees. If you were to build a club @37.50 with a 64* lie angle( 37.50 is with the Cobra Connect sensor BTW) you'd end up pulling every shot to the left and even more so if you have a coming over the top move.
                              Does this not entirely defeat the purpose of a SL set? Every club same length, same lie, same total weight, same swing weight ....I agree with the longer / flatter wedge theory - but in bold you state that a 64* lie you would end up pulling every shot left and more so if you have an over the top move..... so - how come this dos not apply to the 37.5" / 63.5* lie - Cobra 4 or 5 iron - or even the 6 at 63*???

                              Sorry, no chance whatsoever that you can convince me that this set will perform optimally for any player. If you want a bag full of compensated clubs just by any OEM set - where everyone is attempting to fix every ones slice. What if we don't all slice?

                              My TLT math model runs at pretty well a 100% success rate regardless of the size of the player. I will make small compensations at a players request, but random specs just make no sense to me. I don't want a bag full of clubs that are compensated - nor do my players. I have a hard time being convinced that the equipment should be altered to fix a swing flaw. TLT will allow a much greater consistency in swing, swing plane, swing path and overall - a straighter ball flight.
                              Regards
                              Dan

                              Dan's Custom Golf Shop - Sponsor
                              True Length Technology TM
                              Awarded 'Best New Fitting Idea - 2007 AGCP'
                              True Frequency Technology TM
                              - Developer / Owner

                              Maltby Clubmaking Academy
                              - Master
                              Golf Clubmakers Association (GCA)
                              - Advanced / Professional
                              Professional Clubmakers Society (PCS)
                              - Class 'A'

                              Phone : 905-263-8510
                              Hampton, ON
                              Appointment only
                              Web site www.truelengthtechnology.com
                              E-mail: danscustomgolfshop@hotmail.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by TLT Dan View Post

                                Not too sure I believe what this sheet is saying, As an example the sheet says he plays a 49* lofted PW - the spec on this model is 45*. Not sure Tiger would de-loft his PW 4* adding 4* more bounce when everyone else is playing stronger lofts. Just seems too extreme. It also says it was published 7 years ago on Feb 12, 2012?

                                Also not sure that this 6' (2") or (3") man is playing a 35 11/16 wedges / 9 iron. He certainly does not look crouched when watching him play. Keegan Bradley - yes he looks like his is playing a tiny short wedge, but not Tiger.
                                Tiger's irons are one offs...have been for as long as he has been on tour. His bounce angles are completely custom as well. On top of that, he actually plays more bounce on his wedges than stated, due to adding the "Tiger grind" which is a blunted leading edge. If you are that good, you get whatever you want. Even still, the models his irons are built off of have never been a 45* PW, usually 47* or weaker. The Nike blade that he played forever was retail at 50* PW.

                                Also, length is subjective. We have no idea how long Tiger's arms are unless you are his club fitter or tailor. I'm just about 6'1 and I use 1/4" over clubs, that means my PW is 35.75". My clubs feel long to me. I bought a used set of clubs that were about 1/2" under and I could hit them fine...they felt a touch short but it didn't feel totally wrong. It's not unheard of that Tiger uses quarter inch under if that's what he is comfortable using. I mean, he grew up playing clubs of old school lofts, lengths, and lies...should it be really that shocking that the clubs he continues to play with are of similar spec? Not really.
                                Rogue Sub Zero 9* - Diamana BF Series 60 Stiff
                                Rogue Sub Zero 13.5* - Fubuki V-Series 70 Stiff
                                Rogue Sub Zero 18* - Diamana Thump 85 Stiff
                                G700 4i - Diamana Thump 90h Stiff
                                G700 5i-PW - Accra CWT 105 Master's Green
                                Ping Glide Stealth 50/SS, 54/ES, 58/ES - Modus 105 Master's Green Wedge
                                Bettinardi Inovai 3.0 - Stability

                                Comment



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