Can’t get my driver spin and launch down!

[JitzKing]

I have a TM M6 9.0, turned down to 7.0
hzrdus Smoke yellow 6.0 70g
ball Srixon Z-Star and XV

I think I have an aggressive swing, tempo around 2.4
swing speed I would say is between 100-110, avg 105 is fair

struggling to get the spin rate down from an average 4000, and a launch angle of about 19deg
tried things like ball positioning, tee height, club setup, shorter swing, “swinging up” - although I can’t tell what my AoA is

so what helped a little was lowering my loft to 7.0 deg - both spin and launch dropped in avg (3500/16, but not always...still managed to get the numbers up).

I did get fitted at TM, but to be fair, I never had a driver swing when I got it done. So I was slicing it with the odd squirrel finding a nut.
for my 3w, m5, I was fit for hzrdus smoke black 6.0 70 and it feels amazing

so I’m a bit lost on what to do. Ideally I’d like to get to 2300/14 or so, but seems like a stretch and feels I will never get there with my setup.

what I’m thinking:
1) the hzrdus yellow is for moderate swing speeds, thinking of trying a smoke black or green which are for aggressive swings so it says. I feel like my aggressive attack is contributing to the high spin with this shaft
2) try an x-stiff shaft. I read that this could produce lower spin and launch, just not sure if I can load it
3) a different head, more neutral/forward CG?

idealy I would want to try option 1or 2, those will cost less. Still working on my swing and consistency, but the high spin is frustrating! Trying to alter it too drastically might bring the numbers down, but other bad results appear, slice/hook...

any other ideas would be great! Can’t figure out what to do...tia

[RutgersKev]

Strike locations low on the face generally lead to higher spin rates. A lower spinning ball would also be an inexpensive experiment .

[JitzKing]

Strike locations low on the face generally lead to higher spin rates. A lower spinning ball would also be an inexpensive experiment .

Thanks, I included a pic of my impact location. I’ve had other high off the fave which also resulted in high spin

ball is Zstar XV when I did these tests. Good idea I will try other balls too

[Golftime]

The open club face is a large contributor to both the launch angle and spin. Your options could be:

1. Move the ball forward to let the club face close
2. Strengthen your grip
3. Slow down a tad to let the club face close

[westbeach]

It would be good to understand spin loft.

spin loft = dynamic loft (loft of driver at impact) - angle of attack

Since you have high spin, it means your spin loft is high. We know your launch angle on the shot was 19* and launch angle is 80% influenced by dynamic loft. This means that potentially your dynamic loft is around 24* if you have a level or 0 angle of attack (assuming perfect strike at the exact CG point of the face)

As far as equipment adjustments goes, your 9* TM M6 will still have 9* static loft when you loft down to 7*. What ends up happening is the face angle becomes 2* open and your swing has to change to close the face the 2* to have an effective loft of 7*.

I would get checked out on a launch monitor that actually measures spin rate as opposed to calculating it. I sometimes reach 16* launch but my numbers are usually around 2200 rpm. I have a high AoA. Since Protee doesn't measure AoA, I'll probably have a very high spin rate on their machines with 16* launch.

[TORAIDER]

Might I suggest that your current driver is actually higher lofted than the 9* it is stamped with, especially if it is a retail version.

It might be time for you to go the tour issued route: https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?sid=n...ne=true&_pgn=1

That way you can get a much more accurate measurement on the head you are working with...and perhaps get the numbers you want out of your big stick.

[JitzKing]

https://golfrange.org/understanding-dynamic-loft-launch-angle/

this was a good read. I struggle also with lower irons (9-GW), ball launches really high, I know I’m not compressing the ball well

[JitzKing]

It would be good to understand spin loft.

spin loft = dynamic loft (loft of driver at impact) - angle of attack

Since you have high spin, it means your spin loft is high. We know your launch angle on the shot was 19* and launch angle is 80% influenced by dynamic loft. This means that potentially your dynamic loft is around 24* if you have a level or 0 angle of attack (assuming perfect strike at the exact CG point of the face)

As far as equipment adjustments goes, your 9* TM M6 will still have 9* static loft when you loft down to 7*. What ends up happening is the face angle becomes 2* open and your swing has to change to close the face the 2* to have an effective loft of 7*.

I would get checked out on a launch monitor that actually measures spin rate as opposed to calculating it. I sometimes reach 16* launch but my numbers are usually around 2200 rpm. I have a high AoA. Since Protee doesn't measure AoA, I'll probably have a very high spin rate on their machines with 16* launch.

24deg dynamic loft just sounds ridiculously high. Based on this, should I tee it lower? You’re right, If I could measure AoA it would really help.

That’s interesting about the loft adjustment. I’ll try putting it back at 9deg. I’ve tried lofting up but that closes the face so it promotes a hook. I can’t remember but I want to say spin went up too

[rgk5]

A few years ago, Callaway's world HQ in Carlsbad Calif. did an extensive test on driver shafts using a/ their robot, and /b their best , highest swing speed plus handicap staff member. The results were that no shaft reduced spin by more than 300 RPM regardless of weight and flex.

As others have correctly suggested, low face strikes and high spin loft are the culprits to be addressed.

[westbeach]

One correction. Lowering the loft 2* actually opens the face 4*. So in some ways, you are already closing the open face since your face angle from the screen shot is 2.5* but still not square at impact (not that it necessarily need to be). Would explain why you hook the ball when the clubface is square at static position or set at higher loft. 4* closed at start could be 5.5* closed at impact, all things being equal.

If you want to get spin and launch down, I would probably change the clubhead before the shaft. Option 3 from your original post. The M6 CG can play a big factor in how much spin you're getting. BTW, do you have D type or the regular M6?

Can't really say if teeing it lower will help you out. It still depends on the Angle of Attack and where you strike it on the face. Hitting it lower will generally yield more spin depending on how much friction can be generated. Ie. hitting down and low on the face will generate more spin than hitting up and low on the face (think back to spin loft). However, please remember hitting it lower on the face will generate a lower launch angle as well.

Dynamic loft is the key for launch angle and generally, Attack angle alone won't impact spin as much as Spin Loft, a combination of Dynamic Loft and Attack Angle. Find a way to lower dynamic loft and maintain positive AA and you should be able to reduce launch angle and spin.

BTW, getting to your goal of 2400/14, you should be able to gain at least 11 yards of carry + 12 yards of additional rollout. So based on the numbers, you're leaving at least 20 yards on the table based on your capabilities. Getting fit is key and would recommend seeing the boys at TXG when they're back up and running.

[mrcltuch31]

I had the same issue. Not just with the driver, but with irons as well. It largely had to do with a high dynamic loft caused by early release/casting. As you described, this results in high spin and high shots that rob the distance.

Record your swing from the front view and check if you are releasing your right wrist too quickly (even before the ball impact). If you are casting, you are basically increasing the dynamic loft.

This is a swing fault that takes time to get fixed. What's hard is that the more you try to fix the issue with active control, the more likely you will use your right wrist... Try swiniging with almost no release using your hip/core only. Basically, try to make contact with the ball with the L-shape in place (with the wrists hinged) throughout the swing. You'd need to continue to record yourself and check to see the casting slowly go away... I'm still struggling with it but it's getting slowly better.

And try to get that C shape (with head back and belly forward) at the impact. Try to really exaggerate it for a while. That should help you with AoA.

There is hope! My swing speed is only about 90 and I used to hit 200-210 total but now I can hit 240-250 a couple of times every round.

FYI teeing it lower won't help as it would likely decrease AoA.

[mrcltuch31]

And his videos helped a lot: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClO...YATO1zFfpB7QlA
Especially on left/right wrists and shaft leans, etc.

[JitzKing]

I had the same issue. Not just with the driver, but with irons as well. It largely had to do with a high dynamic loft caused by early release/casting. As you described, this results in high spin and high shots that rob the distance.

Record your swing from the front view and check if you are releasing your right wrist too quickly (even before the ball impact). If you are casting, you are basically increasing the dynamic loft.

This is a swing fault that takes time to get fixed. What's hard is that the more you try to fix the issue with active control, the more likely you will use your right wrist... Try swiniging with almost no release using your hip/core only. Basically, try to make contact with the ball with the L-shape in place (with the wrists hinged) throughout the swing. You'd need to continue to record yourself and check to see the casting slowly go away... I'm still struggling with it but it's getting slowly better.

And try to get that C shape (with head back and belly forward) at the impact. Try to really exaggerate it for a while. That should help you with AoA.

There is hope! My swing speed is only about 90 and I used to hit 200-210 total but now I can hit 240-250 a couple of times every round.

FYI teeing it lower won't help as it would likely decrease AoA.

Thanks, will give this a go! You’re right it takes time, I have worked on some of what you described but so easy it is to go back to your natural faults .

[storm]

Spend $40 and get a lesson. Probably a ball position issue

[Gwelfgulfer]

Spend $40 and get a lesson. Probably a ball position issue

More or less this. Fix the swing and issues magically disappear.