Do Toronto Munis make money?

[bl8d]

I could comfortably add Lakeview, Braeben, Peel Village and Humber Valley to Toronto's list. Their inside staff and ground crew are professional in every aspect. J've never played Don Valley.

[fourputt]

I think there is confusion in this (not that we're in a pool discussion). I'm 99% sure outdoor pools are free, however, if you wanted to use a City of Toronto indoor pool, for example the one at Trinity Bellwoods rec centre, you need to buy a gym membership for access.

Correct, fees went away a lifetime ago. Sorry for the slight derail but I hate "get off my lawn" sweeping statements made without facts. Please carry on. I'm on the side of beer. Beer is good.

[WDM1980]

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Does anyone know a city Canada or US where the muni courses are well respected and an enjoyable place to play? Kindly share

Torrey Pines - 2008 and 2021 US Open, Farmer's Insurance Open every year

Bethpage (not muni, but government run) - 2002, 2009 US Open, 2019 PGA Championship, 2024 Ryder Cup, 2012, 2016 Barclays, 2021, 2027 Northern Trust

Cacapon State Park Golf Course (obviously not muni but govt run) - no PGA events obviously, but I enjoyed it and found the course lovely and staff very friendly.

Braeben - I've enjoyed playing there the last few years; conditions have been good and the pace decent in the mornings.

[Richd]

Does anyone know a city Canada or US where the muni courses are well respected and an enjoyable place to play? Kindly share

I think the Niagara Munis are well run and very enjoyable.

[parkie]

Does anyone know a city Canada or US where the muni courses are well respected and an enjoyable place to play? Kindly share

Coronado in SD was in that Golf Digest top 25 bang for your buck.

[Bobogo]

I could comfortably add Lakeview, Braeben, Peel Village and Humber Valley to Toronto's list. Their inside staff and ground crew are professional in every aspect. J've never played Don Valley.

Wow Humber Valley rates for a par 70 5500 yarder I'm still a walker so I'm at $57 weekday if you need a cart health, injury or other you'll be north of $75. I'm too lazy to check but both Braeban and Lakeview are over priced but at least a better golf experience. Feel free to disagree.

It will never happen unfortunately but as a city muni HV should be a $30-$35 walk $40-$45 ride.

[bl8d]

^^^^^^ I was replying to your question ( where the muni courses are well respected and an enjoyable place to play?) You didn't mention price.. but seriously it's getting very hard to play for $50 walking inside the GTA during prime time and prime season.
.If you are a Senior, all the Munis have a good rate with cart.
To get a price break you have go with re-sellers like Underpar, but then you're playing on their clock and not yours.

[nickelhead]

Since I quit Clublink, I've played DV and Braeben perhaps 2-3X/season each and Tam and Lakeview once/season. I enjoy all of them particularly the former two and find them to be above average in value compared to other public courses. In fact, my experience at these munis is that they are much more enjoyable to play than they were say 10 years ago. Easier access to the tees. decent pace of play and remarkably fewer yahoos than playing at higher end public courses.

[Giller31]

If you ever go to Windsor, Roseland is a muni course. It's a Donald Ross design and is always in pretty good shape. A few years ago, they spent a bunch of money to add and redo bunkers. Of course some residents squawked about "tax payer money", but I think you need to invest in the courses to keep golfers playing them and hopefully keep them profitable and not seen as a money loser for the municipality.

[WDM1980]

Wow Humber Valley rates for a par 70 5500 yarder I'm still a walker so I'm at $57 weekday if you need a cart health, injury or other you'll be north of $75. I'm too lazy to check but both Braeban and Lakeview are over priced but at least a better golf experience. Feel free to disagree.

It will never happen unfortunately but as a city muni HV should be a $30-$35 walk $40-$45 ride.

I'm going to have to disagree. You saw the numbers posted earlier in the thread; it's not like the courses are making a ton of money, yet they tend to be pretty busy. So lowering prices just means they'll end up losing money. How do you justify your statement that prices should be $30-35?

Braeben costs $60 (I thought it was $65) to walk on the weekend. Where else can you pay that price to play within 20km? It's on the lower end of the cost spectrum and is in the middle of the city. Again, how do you justify your statement that it is overpriced?

[Mr22putt]

Does anyone know a city Canada or US where the muni courses are well respected and an enjoyable place to play? Kindly share

Vancouver is golf heaven.
Vancouver has 3 muni's.....Fraserview and McCleery are really good muni's and Langara....IMO ranked 3rd.....still blows away Don Valley.
We also have 2 really good muni's.....Burnaby Mountain and Riverway..... in nearby Burnaby.

I have never had a bad customer experience from any staff at any of the above muni's..

Golf in the GVRD is so much more economical than the GTA.

[Bobogo]

I'm going to have to disagree. You saw the numbers posted earlier in the thread; it's not like the courses are making a ton of money, yet they tend to be pretty busy. So lowering prices just means they'll end up losing money. How do you justify your statement that prices should be $30-35?

Braeben costs $60 (I thought it was $65) to walk on the weekend. Where else can you pay that price to play within 20km? It's on the lower end of the cost spectrum and is in the middle of the city. Again, how do you justify your statement that it is overpriced?

A HV and the other Toronot munis aren't that good of courses layout and or conditions wow factor or challenge
B My taxes pay for the upkeep of the courses and also to be charged an inflated $57 walking no thank you
C So if a restaurant is centrally located and the food is medicore and the service average at best you justify going there and overspending because of the location? Of course not you take your business elsewhere but the difference is there are waaay more restaurants than courses. So it seems to me the city munis take advantage of this. Why do we have to get double kicked high taxes and over priced green fees.

Mcleery in Vancouver a city muni I've played several times is cheaper than HV and Braeban and a better golf experience.

[Richd]

A HV and the other Toronot munis aren't that good of courses layout and or conditions wow factor or challenge
B My taxes pay for the upkeep of the courses and also to be charged an inflated $57 walking no thank you
C So if a restaurant is centrally located and the food is medicore and the service average at best you justify going there and overspending because of the location? Of course not you take your business elsewhere but the difference is there are waaay more restaurants than courses. So it seems to me the city munis take advantage of this. Why do we have to get double kicked high taxes and over priced green fees.

Mcleery in Vancouver a city muni I've played several times is cheaper than HV and Braeban and a better golf experience.

the argument being made is that your taxes actually don't pay for the upkeep of the course they are supported by the green fees they generate

[WDM1980]

A HV and the other Toronot munis aren't that good of courses layout and or conditions wow factor or challenge
B My taxes pay for the upkeep of the courses and also to be charged an inflated $57 walking no thank you
C So if a restaurant is centrally located and the food is medicore and the service average at best you justify going there and overspending because of the location? Of course not you take your business elsewhere but the difference is there are waaay more restaurants than courses. So it seems to me the city munis take advantage of this. Why do we have to get double kicked high taxes and over priced green fees.

Mcleery in Vancouver a city muni I've played several times is cheaper than HV and Braeban and a better golf experience.

A - ok, you don't like them, fine. The main attraction seems to be the location.
B - If they're making money, your taxes aren't paying for them. They're actually reducing your property tax burden. How is $57 an inflated rate given the prices of courses with comparable locations, layouts, and conditions?
C - The restaurant comparison doesn't work - the density of restaurants compared to golf courses vastly increases the competition and ease of choice. You can walk to the next restaurant in a matter of seconds, you can't even drive to another golf course in a matter of minutes. For public golf within the city limits, you're limited, so you pay for the convenience. Of course the city can take advantage of that, but compare the city course prices to even the lower end public prices and you'll find they're quite competitive.

Again, how do you justify the price of $30-35? That would have the courses losing money and your taxes would be subsidizing them. At the moment, your taxes are paying for the courses; so, you should expect that they charge a reasonable market rate.

[QuentinJJ]

A - ok, you don't like them, fine. The main attraction seems to be the location.
B - If they're making money, your taxes aren't paying for them. They're actually reducing your property tax burden. How is $57 an inflated rate given the prices of courses with comparable locations, layouts, and conditions?
C - The restaurant comparison doesn't work - the density of restaurants compared to golf courses vastly increases the competition and ease of choice. You can walk to the next restaurant in a matter of seconds, you can't even drive to another golf course in a matter of minutes. For public golf within the city limits, you're limited, so you pay for the convenience. Of course the city can take advantage of that, but compare the city course prices to even the lower end public prices and you'll find they're quite competitive.

Again, how do you justify the price of $30-35? That would have the courses losing money and your taxes would be subsidizing them. At the moment, your taxes are paying for the courses; so, you should expect that they charge a reasonable market rate.

I'd rather have a solvent municpal golf course than another housing subdivision.