Green Speeds at Courses

[Golftime]

Grand Niagara- fast and smooth

Couldn't agree more. It took me about 12 holes to partially adjust to them.

[surette23]

surette23 get a load of this guy

Is this real life?

[Hugh Jass]

Do you routinely tell people how to do their job? Stack dishes for the waiter? Maybe you ensure proper psi with your concrete worker. I make the paint for the concrete after all.

Your putter design can be done with out stimping greens. Or better yet, ask the course if you can use their facility for your own gain.

What's next, asking people to stop posting restaurant reviews on Google etc, because the kitchen staff work really hard?

Personally, I'm more interested in greens that put true, as you can adjust your putting speed according to the course.

For example, we played the new course at Hidden Lake yesterday and while the greens weren't lightning quick, they rolled very true and therefore were a pleasure to play on. They appeared to be quite hard ( good drainage??), as even high approach shots barely left a dent in the green. Other courses I've played recently had softer greens, so pitchmarks were deeper, and coupled with the fact that some people don't even repair those or repair them incorrectly, made for less than ideal putting conditions.

I know there are a lot of challenges to turf management, worked as a greenkeeper for a couple of years, but you have to be able to allow people to voice their opinions about something they spend a decent amount of money on. If some guy wants to do a quick stimptest on one green, I dont see the harm. What is it that bothers you about it? Thanks.

[duffer_mcmulligan]

Please don't give in to bullies trying to stop you from talking about this...please.

I'm sorry you had to deal with comments like that. I for one was looking forward to the findings of some public tracks (private tracks have no problems telling everyone their stimps). In the past I have always found the greens at Dragons fire very slow. Enough so that I don't play there anymore. On the other hand, I usually find the greens at Tangle Creek to have a smooth, quick speed. Wish I was able to put a 'number' on it.

I would agree with this sentiment. The argumentative bullying misses a key point. If a course is consistently faster than others in the area, it is a good bit of data to know. At least in the back of your mind. Stimp speed changes through the day, but a fast green in the AM will still be fast relative to other greens in the afternoon at a similar time after cutting, all other influences being equal. we judge our putts based on the conditions at the time of play and feel, not on a number. But it is good to know, I think, that hey, this is what a 10 feels like, on balance, within margins of error. A 12 is this feel.

My course, Canyon Meadows, I think has some of the most consistent mature greens in Calgary. Members play at 11+ most of the time. When the first Shaw Charity Classic was held 7 years ago, I played the exact setup the pros played on Sunday, greens, rough, everything. The greens were incredibly slow. I spoke to our head greenskeeper and the Champions Tour told them as it was the first few years of the tournament, they were to slow them down. I think to a 9. They putted true, but slow. Over the next couple of years, the Tour slowly allowed them to increase speed and at the third year, they were up to full speed..."The pros know the greens now, have at it" . Because our greens have very subtle breaks, speed is a key defence. Slower greens, you can ram the ball into the cup, taking out the break. With speed, the breaks become far more material. the last time I played the Monday after, two years ago, it felt like our greens again.

Another factor is grass strain. We had all our greens rebuilt in 2006 with USGA A-4 Bentgrass.It is a very winter hardy strain that a lot of the higher altitude, hard winter courses use. It also has exceedingly little grain. The grass shoots straight up. Eagle Ranch in Invermere was one of the first to use it and I think their greens are the best in the Windermere valley (until I played there last week, had recently been punched and had significant checkerboard pattern....ball was all over the place....I expect them to be back to their usual quality in a week). Compare the Eagle Ranch greens to Copper Point, which are significantly faster than Eagle on balance, but much less consistent. There is more dirt in the substrate, vs Eagle are a sandier base (like ours at Canyon). So Copper are faster, but the shaping is more drastic. I would argue more suited to a slower speed. However I am not sure the grass strain would adapt to the slower speed and still provide true roll.

So knowing stimp is a good thing, and like any true person seeking knowledge, it is worthwhile for the poster to measure stamp on his own, as he sees fit. Some course might advertise a stimp of 12, but really hold it to 11, but the 12 would be an "ego" number...we have fast greens, for advertising....if it is a factor anyone cares about, not sure....But if a course says they are a 12, but you consistently get 11, those who expect lightning greens might say, wait, this isn't consistent....or if you regularly play that course, go to a course at 11, and say, hey, I don't need to ram the ball into the cup....what gives...

On any given day, it is a number. A key consideration for play is that the practise or warm up green plays identical to those on the course so you can dial in pre-round. but please keep posting your research. You aren't doing somebody else's job, you are satisfying curiosity, yours and ours. Let the fun haters go ruin someone else's day.

[surette23]

What's next, asking people to stop posting restaurant reviews on Google etc, because the kitchen staff work really hard?

Personally, I'm more interested in greens that put true, as you can adjust your putting speed according to the course.

For example, we played the new course at Hidden Lake yesterday and while the greens weren't lightning quick, they rolled very true and therefore were a pleasure to play on. They appeared to be quite hard ( good drainage??), as even high approach shots barely left a dent in the green. Other courses I've played recently had softer greens, so pitchmarks were deeper, and coupled with the fact that some people don't even repair those or repair them incorrectly, made for less than ideal putting conditions.

I know there are a lot of challenges to turf management, worked as a greenkeeper for a couple of years, but you have to be able to allow people to voice their opinions about something they spend a decent amount of money on. If some guy wants to do a quick stimptest on one green, I dont see the harm. What is it that bothers you about it? Thanks.

Would be the equivalent of going to a high end steak house and asking for your steak cooked medium rare and when the chef brings it out, you pull out your own meat thermometer to see what temperature it's ACTUALLY cooked to.

[frieswithdat]

I went to Muskoka Bay a couple of times last week ... some of those greens were tricky and don't don't recall them being that slick in prior years. I must have 3 putt from 15-20 feet more times in those 2 rounds than I have all year, almost broker my putter (it is absolutely soul crushing watching all those eagle and birdie chances turn into pars and bogies). Agree Lowville has some tricky greens for certain pin placements (#11 has gotten me more times than I'd like to admit).

[AdiosAmigo]

Y'all do as you please. Just know the number means nothing. Don't be surprised if you get some flak if you're seen doing it.

[wlorcb]

Would be the equivalent of going to a high end steak house and asking for your steak cooked medium rare and when the chef brings it out, you pull out your own meat thermometer to see what temperature it's ACTUALLY cooked to.

No, it would be the equivalent of getting a steak that you asked for med-rare and having it cooked right through, and when you complain, the waiter says that their master chef knows how to cook and that your steak is indeed med-rare. And then when you bring out your own thermo that says well-done, the waiter says that information is not valid and the numbers don't mean anything and your steak was delivered exactly as you asked for it, med-rare.

[AdiosAmigo]

No, it would be the equivalent of getting a steak that you asked for med-rare and having it cooked right through, and when you complain, the waiter says that their master chef knows how to cook and that your steak is indeed med-rare. And then when you bring out your own thermo that says well-done, the waiter says that information is not valid and the numbers don't mean anything and your steak was delivered exactly as you asked for it, med-rare.

And it doesn't matter how it's cooked. You eat and enjoy regardless of how it's cooked. Rendering you thermometer useless. You miss your mouth a few times with the fork and blame the cook. But really you're bad at feeding yourself and the doneness had nothing to do with it.

[wlorcb]

And it doesn't matter how it's cooked. You eat and enjoy regardless of how it's cooked. Rendering you thermometer useless. You miss your mouth a few times with the fork and blame the cook. But really you're bad at feeding yourself and the doneness had nothing to do with it.

How it is cooked has nothing to do with being med-rare or well done. You a life long vegetarian or something? Someone expecting a good steak med-rare is NOT, NEVER, EVER, going to enjoy that steak coming well done.

[racmbs]

this!!!


BUCCI Putters please don't stop posting because of few selfish retards your information is appreciated by many!!!

If you're going to insult someone, at least take time to choose your words carefully.

[BUCCI Putters]

To clear things up, to the superintendents, greens keepers, and grounds crews……. I have not stopped measuring 1 green per round of golf, I have stopped posting the results. I understand that we golfers love to put a number to the speed of greens when discussing them on any track we just played. I was just going to “clear the air” on actual numbers. Most players don’t realize that greens that have a 5% slope in areas, the ball won’t stop rolling at a stimp of 9.0 or more. They are simply unaware of actual speed readings. Personally, I enjoy playing greens of 9’6”as this is my sweet spot for when I envision the fall lines to the holes. Most believe that number to be 11’ or 12’. Augusta National has trouble when their speeds are over 10’6” due to the slopes. Most PGA events have their greens at 10’6” to 11’6”. USGA events at 11’6”to 12’6”, again dependent on location and weather.

Our local golf courses have a lot of factors in limiting their green speed limits to what they are, and not to mention a reduction in PGR’s to maintain consistent speed throughout the day. In no way was I trying to say one course is better than the other. I also was not saying you over cooked my steak! As I mentioned, I manage my own green and have the utmost respect for all the courses private and municipal, and find it amazing at the job they do to give us the great putting surfaces we play on day in and day out.

I did stop posting the numbers, out of respect. I did not say I will stop posting to TGN. Let’s give these guys a break. When talking about a course and their greens, understand, if you find them not to your liking today, you may love them the next time out, especially if you can adjust to the fall lines that day…….

[captainbim]

If you're going to insult someone, at least take time to choose your words carefully.

are you hurt? can you suggest any other words that may not cause wound in your sensitive feelings?

[racmbs]

are you hurt? can you suggest any other words that may not cause wound in your sensitive feelings?

You're an adult (hopefully), figure it out.

[AdiosAmigo]

are you hurt? can you suggest any other words that may not cause wound in your sensitive feelings?

May the peace and love of the Lord be with you.