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  • #16
    Originally posted by drewharvie View Post



    Seguin Valley feels unfinished and that's because it is. They ran out of money during construction so they just sort of put everything together best they could and said "here."

    I just find the entire property awkward and very shallow in purpose. One is a bad opening tee shot, 3 is a bad tee shot with the rock hiding the hazard from the players line of sight, the routing on the front nine feels forced to get to the 7th (which isn't a good par 3 either, btw. If you have to build a floating tee box on artificial turf to make it work for the front tees, it's a poorly routed golf hole, and the trees on the island are repulsive and take away from the "cool" factor of the hole). I find short 4's that force the golfers hand on how to play them are no different than a long, demanding par 4 that forces you to play one way (boring). Neither are good. Options are the ethos of architecture, and the 11th, 13th, and 15th all provide 0 creativity which make them feel like connector holes. Connector holes are fine, but when it's 33% of your back nine, well...

    When they did try and build features, it feels incredibly mailed in, like the three bunkers on 1, the back right bunker on 2, the front bunker on 12 (why did they need that?), the front left bunker on 13 (why did they need that?), etc. I think the green site selection is alright--all on knoll's above the surrounds--but one or two down low would've been good for a bit of variety. I almost wonder if the property is so wet that they had to have every green raised, which makes me question if the site is even suitable for golf in the first place (I don't think it is). I played after quite a bit of rain so I can't comment on conditions. My connect on how wet the property is refers to the swamps and such.

    Finally, I felt the greens were "ok," but rarely anything of interest worth talking about happening in the contours, and nothing you couldn't find at 1500 of the 2300 golf courses in Canada. I like 9 & 10 tee shot though. After the tee shot, 10 loses the plot a bit. 14 is decent also. Simple, but not bad.

    Out of the 77 top 100's I've played, it is by far the least deserving to be on the list, but I imagine I'll get pushback for this. But again, I'm looking at it much more architecture-y than most, and maybe that's where some won't see eye to eye with me. That's fine! That's the beauty of golf. For me, this is a no bueno golf course. I'd go to Ridge at Manitou, Rocky (not public I guess), Muskoka Bay, Taboo, etc before Seguin.


    Appreicate this detailed and thoughtful answer. I look forward to trying the course (hopefully this summer) and will give you my two cents after ! Certainly a lot of detail to keep my eye out for based on your review.

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    • #17
      I would do . . . Friday play Rockey Crest on the way up . . . stay in Parry Sound and Saturday play The Ridge and Seguin or Parry Sound and Sunday play Muskoka Bay on the way back to Toronto . . .

      I thought Seguin was OK . . . a few strange hole (#1 for example) . . . it is surely harder, not for beginners . . .

      lots of very nice course, it just depend of the person and what they like . . . Bigwin for example, very nice and wide fairway makes it appealing for most of the players . . . MB (like Taboo) is a lot tighter but I think nicer. I lot harder to score well . . .
      If you think it's hard to meet new people, try picking up the wrong golf ball.

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      • #18
        Given my situation I only play Rocky when up in Muskoka as we have a place there
        Rocky is public in that you can stay at the resort and get access - you can buy a players club pass which would likely get you on and a discount at the resort
        While up there I have heard that Ridge and Manitou is awesome, almost underrated - but is victim to its volatile ownership, so conditions can be highly variable - I plan on trying to get on
        Windermere (think Stanley Thomson) and North Granite Ridge are both good options as well
        I played Seguin once, wasnt really a fan, but the sheer mass scale of the property is very cool, its huge, and unwalkable, locals up there seem to love it, for me, I'd only go again for the Dairy Queen on the way back after the round

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        • #19
          Originally posted by drewharvie View Post



          Seguin Valley feels unfinished and that's because it is. They ran out of money during construction so they just sort of put everything together best they could and said "here."

          I just find the entire property awkward and very shallow in purpose. One is a bad opening tee shot, 3 is a bad tee shot with the rock hiding the hazard from the players line of sight, the routing on the front nine feels forced to get to the 7th (which isn't a good par 3 either, btw. If you have to build a floating tee box on artificial turf to make it work for the front tees, it's a poorly routed golf hole, and the trees on the island are repulsive and take away from the "cool" factor of the hole). I find short 4's that force the golfers hand on how to play them are no different than a long, demanding par 4 that forces you to play one way (boring). Neither are good. Options are the ethos of architecture, and the 11th, 13th, and 15th all provide 0 creativity which make them feel like connector holes. Connector holes are fine, but when it's 33% of your back nine, well...

          When they did try and build features, it feels incredibly mailed in, like the three bunkers on 1, the back right bunker on 2, the front bunker on 12 (why did they need that?), the front left bunker on 13 (why did they need that?), etc. I think the green site selection is alright--all on knoll's above the surrounds--but one or two down low would've been good for a bit of variety. I almost wonder if the property is so wet that they had to have every green raised, which makes me question if the site is even suitable for golf in the first place (I don't think it is). I played after quite a bit of rain so I can't comment on conditions. My connect on how wet the property is refers to the swamps and such.

          Finally, I felt the greens were "ok," but rarely anything of interest worth talking about happening in the contours, and nothing you couldn't find at 1500 of the 2300 golf courses in Canada. I like 9 & 10 tee shot though. After the tee shot, 10 loses the plot a bit. 14 is decent also. Simple, but not bad.

          Out of the 77 top 100's I've played, it is by far the least deserving to be on the list, but I imagine I'll get pushback for this. But again, I'm looking at it much more architecture-y than most, and maybe that's where some won't see eye to eye with me. That's fine! That's the beauty of golf. For me, this is a no bueno golf course. I'd go to Ridge at Manitou, Rocky (not public I guess), Muskoka Bay, Taboo, etc before Seguin.
          I was really hoping for a detailed review because I can appreciate your critical eye and it's for a course i've played a lot so I can probably learn something from your critique. The obvious intricacies of course design are far beyond me but it is nice to see we do have a lot of the same issues about the course. Perfect example would be on hole #3. The tee shot is blind, and if someone gives you a course guide it fails to mention that the outcropping of fairway between the rock and the hazard is significantly slopped forward towards the hazard with little chance of holding it. I guess this is one of your main issues with the course, it's forcing you to play a shot that the architect wants you to play instead of you using your imagination.

          An interesting discussion in terms of the short par 4's. In my opinion only hole 11 should actually be viewed as a driveable par 4. Hole 15 is certainly doable and I have on a lark tee up an extra ball just to see if I could do it. But the risk is far too high to do in tournament play. Hole 13 is out of my range but certainly there are longer hitters that could be tempted. But is that the issue for you? That they are tantalizingly drivable based on yardage but almost not worth it as a golfer to go for it. And it all being on a single nine. I guess another hole similar would be the 2nd hole at the Ridge at Manitou. The yardage is good for a drivable par 4 but the intent is iron off the tee, and wedge back up the hill. And don't you even think about going for the green sir!!!!

          I do play the course every year, with it's proximity to the in-laws cottage being 21 minutes away. But for playability I would play Parry Sound GC far more often and from an enjoyment standpoint I think it's a better course and less frustrating...outside of hole 9. I'm really not sure what McBroom was thinking on that one. Would love to pick your brain on that one Drew!

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