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Soft stepping a shaft?

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  • Soft stepping a shaft?

    Just read....on a .355 taper shaft....is soft stepping a shaft simply using a longer shaft and then butt trimming?
    eg) Soft step...put a 7 iron shaft in an 8 iron and then butt trim
    So would a soft stepped stiff shaft...generally feel in between a stiff and regular shaft?

    Can I also assume if blind tested...most golfers would not know or feel much difference striking a stiff shaft vs. a soft stepped stiff shaft?

  • #2
    Unless each iron has been on a flex board or in a digital frequency analyzer, do you really know the actual stiffness of your set?
    You could have shaft labels indicate R flex, and 1 of 8 shafts could be a S flex and 1 of 8 shafts could be an A flex, but 6 of 8 are R flex.

    Hard or soft step to your hearts content, and you will still have 25% of your iron set exhibiting the wrong trajectory, and carry with increased directional control.
    Adams XTD Ti 12.5* / TightLies 2 Ti / Super 9031 Tour / Ping WRX i20 Irons
    Ping WRX Tour Gorge / YES Natalie Putter B-CG / Leupold GX-4 Rangefinder
    Personal Best: 79, hoping for another sub 80 round before the Twilight Zone

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mr22putt View Post
      Just read....on a .355 taper shaft....is soft stepping a shaft simply using a longer shaft and then butt trimming?
      eg) Soft step...put a 7 iron shaft in an 8 iron and then butt trim
      So would a soft stepped stiff shaft...generally feel in between a stiff and regular shaft?

      Can I also assume if blind tested...most golfers would not know or feel much difference striking a stiff shaft vs. a soft stepped stiff shaft?
      I've tried soft stepping some different shafts the past few seasons --- KBS stiff, Project X 6.0 and KBS Tour V 125 stiff.

      It could very well be in my head, wanting there to be a difference felt, but it seemed to me that each shaft felt a bit smoother and the ball flew a bit higher once soft stepped. I never did test them on a launch monitor to be certain though.

      And I didn't butt trim them either --- just left them their original length.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TourIQ View Post
        Unless each iron has been on a flex board or in a digital frequency analyzer, do you really know the actual stiffness of your set?
        You could have shaft labels indicate R flex, and 1 of 8 shafts could be a S flex and 1 of 8 shafts could be an A flex, but 6 of 8 are R flex.

        Hard or soft step to your hearts content, and you will still have 25% of your iron set exhibiting the wrong trajectory, and carry with increased directional control.
        FFS....why can't you give the guy just a straight answer to his question instead of going off on a tangent related to quality control (which no doubt you've perfected to some degree when your son was in high school and are just dying to tell us about again).

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Cdntac View Post

          I've tried soft stepping some different shafts the past few seasons --- KBS stiff, Project X 6.0 and KBS Tour V 125 stiff.

          It could very well be in my head, wanting there to be a difference felt, but it seemed to me that each shaft felt a bit smoother and the ball flew a bit higher once soft stepped. I never did test them on a launch monitor to be certain though.

          And I didn't butt trim them either --- just left them their original length.
          http://www.golfclub-technology.com/stepping.html

          By not butt trimming the tip portion was allowed to bow forward a little more. If one uses a telephone pole and does not have the swing speed to go with it then the ball will barely get off the ground

          Similar to this:

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Tintin View Post

            http://www.golfclub-technology.com/stepping.html

            By not butt trimming the tip portion was allowed to bow forward a little more. If one uses a telephone pole and does not have the swing speed to go with it then the ball will barely get off the ground

            Similar to this:
            My reasoning for not butt trimming was simply the fact I didn't want to ruin a set of shafts just for an experiment. I figured it was only a negligible length difference anyways and I could perhaps benefit from a slightly more upright posture.

            Experimenting can be fun but not when it costs an entire set of shafts. Lol.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cdntac View Post

              .Experimenting can be fun but not when it costs an entire set of shafts. Lol.
              I hear ya

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mr22putt View Post
                Just read....on a .355 taper shaft....is soft stepping a shaft simply using a longer shaft and then butt trimming?
                eg) Soft step...put a 7 iron shaft in an 8 iron and then butt trim
                So would a soft stepped stiff shaft...generally feel in between a stiff and regular shaft?

                Can I also assume if blind tested...most golfers would not know or feel much difference striking a stiff shaft vs. a soft stepped stiff shaft?
                first off,the"soft-stepping" depends entirely on the flex you start out with.
                A 3iron shaft into a 4head will change its flex approx. 1/2 flex
                ie. a S will become a R+

                if your intentions were to make the assembly feel/play softer, I advise against trimming the butt end until you try the club first.

                true as to re. the feel. You'd have to go into the fairway woods before the extra length of the shaft noticeably enhances the changed flex feel

                read this
                http://www.golfclubshaftreview.com/h...-stepping.html
                Last edited by bl8d; Mar 20, 2019, 07:14 AM.
                things change

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mr22putt View Post
                  Just read....on a .355 taper shaft....is soft stepping a shaft simply using a longer shaft and then butt trimming?
                  eg) Soft step...put a 7 iron shaft in an 8 iron and then butt trim
                  So would a soft stepped stiff shaft...generally feel in between a stiff and regular shaft?

                  Can I also assume if blind tested...most golfers would not know or feel much difference striking a stiff shaft vs. a soft stepped stiff shaft?
                  You are correct. Soft stepping is simply putting a 7i shaft into an 8i head, assuming all else is equal (the head weights are in perfect progression, the shafts are all in line in terms of progression of CPM, etc.). I softstepped my irons this year, and have even gone so far as to double soft-step my LW. This is a practice we incorporate for a lot of our fits. Matt Kuchar plays soft-stepped Stiff irons, and Jim Furyk plays hardstepped Regular flex irons. It is predominately a feel thing, as it only changes the flex 1/3rd of a flex. I am doing it just because I want something a little easier to load on my off days.

                  TourIQ I suspect the shafts you use are pretty poor quality for only 13% of them to be on spec. My builder built two sets for the same guy using Mitsubishi OTi 95s and out of the 22 shafts he used (8 irons + 3 wedges X 2 sets), one of the shafts was out by 1 CPM from what it was supposed to, and it cycled 1 CPM stiffer than what he wanted it to. Big deal. It doesn't surprise me that you see such poor indicators of flex if you are using value level True Temper (TT Lite for example), entry level FST, and value level Grafalloy, Aldila, and UST product. Not everything is perfect though, Steelfiber and KBS are known to be pretty iffy in their quality as well. Not everyone is immune, but the chances of getting a poorer product increases exponentially the more value the product is, I don't care how good of a club maker someone is. You're going to get and make a bad set of clubs if you use bad components.
                  Last edited by Phatchrisrules; Mar 20, 2019, 07:57 AM.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Phatchrisrules View Post

                    entry level FST, and value level .
                    FST shafts entry levels are better than what you say they are. And an experienced clubmaker can build to the slope they desire by tip trimming less or more and or adjust head weight. But I am sure you already know that.
                    What I am curious to find out is do .355 shat tips of the same flex fly a little higher than .370 counterpart?
                    Wood shafts bend more and fly higher because of the size of the tip and their length so one would assume that a .355 shaft might have a little more give than a .370. Couple years back Wishon came out with hybrids with .335 hosels to help slow swinging golfers getting the ball airborne. Thoughts?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tintin View Post

                      FST shafts entry levels are better than what you say they are. And an experienced clubmaker can build to the slope they desire by tip trimming less or more and or adjust head weight. But I am sure you already know that.
                      What I am curious to find out is do .355 shat tips of the same flex fly a little higher than .370 counterpart?
                      Wood shafts bend more and fly higher because of the size of the tip and their length so one would assume that a .355 shaft might have a little more give than a .370. Couple years back Wishon came out with hybrids with .335 hosels to help slow swinging golfers getting the ball airborne. Thoughts?
                      I'll agree to disagree on the bolded portion. Cobra used to FST as their stock iron shafts in their clubs a few models back when I was still at GT. There were a lot of inconsistencies when we tried to reshaft broken ones, customer's saying the clubs didn't feel the same, etc. I am aware about building on a slope and adjusting for head weight but sometimes there is only so much that can be done. You can only ream out so much head weight, or add so much tip weight before you start to influence other factors. However, not being a club builder as dedicated as others I might be completely wrong on this.

                      I've heard in passing that thinner hosels are "weaker" in the sense that they might give a bit more regarding shaft deflection. Personally, I don't believe it for a minute. I don't think anyone has ever tested it either. I doubt you find much discrepancy in height over a statistically significant sample size due to player variance in the delivery, influence of shaft weight, skill, etc.
                      Fitter at Tour Experience Golf (T | X | G). Take your game to the next level at the world's ultimate golf club fitting studio.

                      See what we do/schedule a fitting here: https://txg.ca/

                      Get exclusive, members only content and prizes here:
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                      Watch the newest YouTube videos here:
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Phatchrisrules View Post

                        I'll agree to disagree on the bolded portion. Cobra used to FST as their stock iron shafts in their clubs a few models back when I was still at GT. There were a lot of inconsistencies when we tried to reshaft broken ones, customer's saying the clubs didn't feel the same, etc. I am aware about building on a slope and adjusting for head weight but sometimes there is only so much that can be done. You can only ream out so much head weight, or add so much tip weight before you start to influence other factors. However, not being a club builder as dedicated as others I might be completely wrong on this.

                        I've heard in passing that thinner hosels are "weaker" in the sense that they might give a bit more regarding shaft deflection. Personally, I don't believe it for a minute. I don't think anyone has ever tested it either. I doubt you find much discrepancy in height over a statistically significant sample size due to player variance in the delivery, influence of shaft weight, skill, etc.
                        Of course loft reigns supreme. I've read Cobra horror stories on here.So It could be the ''assemblers'' and not the shafts per say. Moreover as far as I know FST does not make .355 shafts(except for putters and hi-rev wedge shafts) so if the GT assembler did not match the step patterns then it could have easily been messed up by the GT clubmaker. Who knows? If shafts are weight sorted you're going to be in the ball park if you follow the manufacturer's trimming instructions. And why should one pay $20 more per shaft if someone put his name or design on it?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cdntac View Post

                          I've tried soft stepping some different shafts the past few seasons --- KBS stiff, Project X 6.0 and KBS Tour V 125 stiff.

                          It could very well be in my head, wanting there to be a difference felt, but it seemed to me that each shaft felt a bit smoother and the ball flew a bit higher once soft stepped. I never did test them on a launch monitor to be certain though.
                          This is exactly what one should expect from soft stepping, a bit softer feel and slightly higher trajectory.

                          Remember that shaft are trimmed at the tip for the main purpose of controlling trajectory. The more that you tip trim, the lower the trajectory will be, because you are removing more of the softest section of the shaft ( tip) and leaving more of the stiffest part of the iron shaft.
                          so by taking a shaft with less tip trim and installed in a heavier and higher lofted head , this will increase trajectory and the flex will be softer....by approximately 1/3 a flex.

                          soft and hard stepping is a wonderful way to tweak trajectories.
                          "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tintin View Post

                            FST shafts entry levels are better than what you say they are. And an experienced clubmaker can build to the slope they desire by tip trimming less or more and or adjust head weight. But I am sure you already know that.
                            What I am curious to find out is do .355 shat tips of the same flex fly a little higher than .370 counterpart?
                            Wood shafts bend more and fly higher because of the size of the tip and their length so one would assume that a .355 shaft might have a little more give than a .370. Couple years back Wishon came out with hybrids with .335 hosels to help slow swinging golfers getting the ball airborne. Thoughts?
                            Agree, FST shafts are very good, more consistent than DG for sure.
                            I've used many FST shafts in builds, in fact it's my preferred shaft , goid quality, consistent and reasonable price ( so many shafts are extremely overpriced with no reason other than marketing bs and branding)
                            built a set of SL with FST pro 125 for myself last summer, the 8 shafts had a variance of 2/grams, and minimal diff in cpm.

                            Wishon did research and found that the narrower shaft tip diameter did influence trajectories , especially for slower s golfers.....this was the reason for him designing the GI 335 hybrid and long iron shafts.

                            as for .355 vs .370 iron shafts, the answer is no, there was no statistically relevant difference found . Makes sense as it's about 1/2 an inch of the shaft tip that is taper , the rest is .370 .

                            however .335 does make a diff over .350, .370
                            Last edited by Weirfan; Mar 20, 2019, 09:38 AM.
                            "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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                            • #15
                              Hi all:
                              Thanks for all the replies.
                              I never thought that 1/2" for a hard or soft step would produce that much difference...albeit....the difference can be rather small....I would assume the main difference is in feel vs. much of a performance/results variance.

                              As Chris said....a soft step might add a touch of more forgiveness when our swings disappear during a rd...which I can say can unfortunately can happen a fair bit....the Golf Gods never like to see us having fun or on a roll for a few holes...and the Golf Gods then put us back to reality.

                              Come to think of it....my friend's JPX 825 Pros with KBS Tour stiffs I'm using now might be soft stepped...his irons are 1/2" longer than my Adams XTD A tours....he installed the KBS shafts from an old set of clubs he had.

                              Yes, I do know from reading some stuff on the web that some shafts can be off a bit in a standard set of clubs.

                              I have a few more questions about shafts and will ask them in 2 separate threads.

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