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Looking for some help to ingrain swing changes!

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  • Looking for some help to ingrain swing changes!

    Hi all. I've been swinging the same flawed swing for the past 20 years or so. Open face throughout, overswing, massive over the top coming down, lack of weight shift. Lots of weak slices, some hooks too. Tee shots (minus par 3s) are especially bad. I don't even carry driver anymore!

    Any advice on ingraining the correct moves into my swing? The problem is that after so many years, my body reverts to the old swing because it feels comfortable. Muscle memory, basically. I've tried slow motion, using a mirror, shorter swings, etc.

    My goal is to basically have fun playing golf again. Consistent ball striking and bogey golf would be fine with me. I'm more concerned with hitting the centre of the clubface than a ton of distance. I'm 36 so still have some time left haha. I'm fairly athletic so I do feel like I have it in me to improve.

    Any thoughts/advice? I feel like this might take years! Thanks!

  • #2
    Stick a ball under your back foot,may help keep your weight forward.

    Comment


    • #3
      Changing a mature swing takes conscious repetition in my experience. I did a minor change last fall which modified my grip a bit and spent much of the winter walking around the house gripping a club to get it to feel normal. Drove my wife nuts but i had a few clubs around the house and all the time would just grab one and work into my setup.

      I'd take a lesson or two to get some good ideas on what to change, then go hit 1000-1500 balls at the range over a couple weeks and go back to the pro to see what you kept -

      P

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by petvan View Post
        Changing a mature swing takes conscious repetition in my experience. I did a minor change last fall which modified my grip a bit and spent much of the winter walking around the house gripping a club to get it to feel normal. Drove my wife nuts but i had a few clubs around the house and all the time would just grab one and work into my setup.

        I'd take a lesson or two to get some good ideas on what to change, then go hit 1000-1500 balls at the range over a couple weeks and go back to the pro to see what you kept -

        P
        Good analysis and advice. I have the luxury of working at an indoor golf center over the winter. This provides some opportunity to practise and to get feedback from a very good instructor. After fifty years of hitting a high pulled fade I can now hit a draw even with a 3 wood off the ground. It of course doesn't always work but the ball flight is much stronger on average.
        I still have to review my swing prompts while playing to increase my chances of success. After the basic setup over a shot is complete I repeat my little chant, "butt, gut, Eddie". This reminds me to stick out my rear a little bit, such in my stomach, and finally start the backswing and transition slowly and then fire through the ball. Sometimes in the backswing I remind myself to get full extension with my left arm. Recently I discovered that my setup had changed a bit and many shots were being struck closer to the heel than the sweet spot. So as part of the setup that is another checkpoint that must be reviewed. All of this is to say that even with lots of practise and review by a knowledgeable coach it still takes conscious effort to do it correctly.
        So develop a checklist for yourself of those things that help increase your chance of hitting a good shot and then use it.
        Aim at nothing and you will hit it every time.

        Comment


        • #5
          Bite the bullet and get some lessons , there’s no point in practicing the wrong thing . It took me years of lessons the grove a whole new swing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Ingraining a new swing or even just one component of a swing takes many focused reps. Knowing what to ingrain and the right way FOR YOU to go about doing so comes from a pro. You can check out a thread called "different approaches to teaching/learning the game" (or movement...cant recall exactly) in which I do a deep dive on comparing static position and technique training methods vs feels and intentions methods. I am def a proponent of the latter and in general it takes a lot less time to learn this way bc the foundation of this approach is to take existing motor patterns you already know/have and tweaking them slightly or not at all and just applying them to golf. The other method can work great too esp when done right but it really does fly in the face of what we know about motor learning and consequently takes way waaaay longer with a super long awkward phase. The feels based way can def be weird too but a guy like Shawn Clement will play around with different feel analogies until one clicks for you and then you just build a golf swing off of that. You being a reasonably athletic guy makes you ideal for this as if you know how to throw, you already have the underlying motor pathway built for a proper body pivot and utilizing ground force correctly...you just haven't connected the two yet.

            Clement is expensive but he has 'disciples' that charge less per hour that can def speed track you through what to work on and how. To ingrain it, like mentioned above, it will take a cpl thousand balls, a reassessment/redirection lesson and then a few more thousand balls. That's just golf. In the meantime, before lessons, I always recommend throwing clubs for people trying to learn a fast, fluid, low strain swing. Throwing clubs--not performing 'your swing' and letting go--but just tossing all those preconceptions out and using your natural athleticism to heave the object in your hands end-over-end in a straight line in front of you.... Pulling this off 'teaches' you sequencing (which u already have if u are athletic and can throw), clubpath, release, weightshift (again smth u already know if u can throw but maybe overthought it by treating golf as a seperate thing than other sports...it's not). One tip: if trying to throw from homeplate over the second base bag, feel like you are throwing at the second basemen (for rightees...at SS for lefties)...this gives you that nice in-to-out path which will actually release the club's momentum straight in front of you...feeling like you release in front of you results in an over the top pull and throwing left. Also, try this at an actual baseball diamond with a cage at first as some ppl really send the club flying high and left and u don't want to hurt anyone ... or smash ur car.

            Once you can throw clubs str8, u can hit balls str8 as long as ur grip isn't killing ur swing b4 it starts. Hope that helps but tbh a pro well versed in this approach to teaching movement will cut down on the time it will take u to improve. If u find a pro with the wrong approach (for u) u may get added to the list of guys that have taken 15k worth of lessons over the span of a decade and don't break 90. Don't be that guy, find a Clement or similar minded pro that understands how we are wired to move and learn movement for best results imo.
            Last edited by SmoothBomber; Aug 22, 2019, 09:59 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by nearace View Post
              Stick a ball under your back foot,may help keep your weight forward.
              Thanks for the tip!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by petvan View Post
                Changing a mature swing takes conscious repetition in my experience. I did a minor change last fall which modified my grip a bit and spent much of the winter walking around the house gripping a club to get it to feel normal. Drove my wife nuts but i had a few clubs around the house and all the time would just grab one and work into my setup.

                I'd take a lesson or two to get some good ideas on what to change, then go hit 1000-1500 balls at the range over a couple weeks and go back to the pro to see what you kept -

                P
                I have a similar thing with my wife too haha. Yup some lessons couldn't hurt!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Golftime View Post

                  Good analysis and advice. I have the luxury of working at an indoor golf center over the winter. This provides some opportunity to practise and to get feedback from a very good instructor. After fifty years of hitting a high pulled fade I can now hit a draw even with a 3 wood off the ground. It of course doesn't always work but the ball flight is much stronger on average.
                  I still have to review my swing prompts while playing to increase my chances of success. After the basic setup over a shot is complete I repeat my little chant, "butt, gut, Eddie". This reminds me to stick out my rear a little bit, such in my stomach, and finally start the backswing and transition slowly and then fire through the ball. Sometimes in the backswing I remind myself to get full extension with my left arm. Recently I discovered that my setup had changed a bit and many shots were being struck closer to the heel than the sweet spot. So as part of the setup that is another checkpoint that must be reviewed. All of this is to say that even with lots of practise and review by a knowledgeable coach it still takes conscious effort to do it correctly.
                  So develop a checklist for yourself of those things that help increase your chance of hitting a good shot and then use it.
                  Thanks! Yes, good to have some swing thoughts but not too many! I've also heard it's good to get all the swing thoughts out of your mind before addressing the ball.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by chachi1984 View Post
                    Bite the bullet and get some lessons , there’s no point in practicing the wrong thing . It took me years of lessons the grove a whole new swing.
                    Yup it might take me years too!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SmoothBomber View Post
                      Ingraining a new swing or even just one component of a swing takes many focused reps. Knowing what to ingrain and the right way FOR YOU to go about doing so comes from a pro. You can check out a thread called "different approaches to teaching/learning the game" (or movement...cant recall exactly) in which I do a deep dive on comparing static position and technique training methods vs feels and intentions methods. I am def a proponent of the latter and in general it takes a lot less time to learn this way bc the foundation of this approach is to take existing motor patterns you already know/have and tweaking them slightly or not at all and just applying them to golf. The other method can work great too esp when done right but it really does fly in the face of what we know about motor learning and consequently takes way waaaay longer with a super long awkward phase. The feels based way can def be weird too but a guy like Shawn Clement will play around with different feel analogies until one clicks for you and then you just build a golf swing off of that. You being a reasonably athletic guy makes you ideal for this as if you know how to throw, you already have the underlying motor pathway built for a proper body pivot and utilizing ground force correctly...you just haven't connected the two yet.

                      Clement is expensive but he has 'disciples' that charge less per hour that can def speed track you through what to work on and how. To ingrain it, like mentioned above, it will take a cpl thousand balls, a reassessment/redirection lesson and then a few more thousand balls. That's just golf. In the meantime, before lessons, I always recommend throwing clubs for people trying to learn a fast, fluid, low strain swing. Throwing clubs--not performing 'your swing' and letting go--but just tossing all those preconceptions out and using your natural athleticism to heave the object in your hands end-over-end in a straight line in front of you.... Pulling this off 'teaches' you sequencing (which u already have if u are athletic and can throw), clubpath, release, weightshift (again smth u already know if u can throw but maybe overthought it by treating golf as a seperate thing than other sports...it's not). One tip: if trying to throw from homeplate over the second base bag, feel like you are throwing at the second basemen (for rightees...at SS for lefties)...this gives you that nice in-to-out path which will actually release the club's momentum straight in front of you...feeling like you release in front of you results in an over the top pull and throwing left. Also, try this at an actual baseball diamond with a cage at first as some ppl really send the club flying high and left and u don't want to hurt anyone ... or smash ur car.

                      Once you can throw clubs str8, u can hit balls str8 as long as ur grip isn't killing ur swing b4 it starts. Hope that helps but tbh a pro well versed in this approach to teaching movement will cut down on the time it will take u to improve. If u find a pro with the wrong approach (for u) u may get added to the list of guys that have taken 15k worth of lessons over the span of a decade and don't break 90. Don't be that guy, find a Clement or similar minded pro that understands how we are wired to move and learn movement for best results imo.
                      Yes I agree with this. I think it's best to have a feel approach to the game as opposed to technical. I've definitely heard of this throwing drill and I've experimented with it a bit. It definitely makes sense in my mind! I have watched some Clement videos. He has an interesting approach, that's for sure!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You can achieve a lot by practicing in front of a large mirror. This gets rid of the Ball. The biggest downer in the learning process.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Your description can describe me too lol. In addition to many fine ideas suggested on TGN, this video resonates with me.

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYtoiQBXOFc

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm the same age, you have plenty of time left, you just need to put in the time on the range and practice properly with a goal in mind.

                            I got back into golf this year and noticed that I was hitting a pretty weak slice. I video'd my swing, figured out a few issues and then went on YouTube to look at drills to fix those.

                            Over the top
                            Grip problems
                            Wrist angle
                            Extension through the ball

                            Is it perfect? No. Getting lessons is better for sure. But, I don't like to learn that way. I prefer the DIY. My swing is far from perfect, but I am hitting the ball better than ever and my scores have dropped a lot this year. I enjoy the process, I enjoy doing drills and seeing my game improve.

                            So - my suggestion is:
                            Pick one thing to work on at a time, find a drill or two online that helps fix that issue, and then practice that drill at the range. Once you fix that issue move onto the next one.
                            If you enjoy practice then this should be fun!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Took a couple of lessons with one of our pros a year ago. I hit a couple balls for him. Then he had me throw a club down the range. Pulled hard left. Another...left....another...straighter....another. ...a few minutes later, I had emptied my bag on the range....then I had to do the walk of shame to pick everything up. the other four folks on the range just stared slack jawed at me....

                              had a few lessons from one of our more junior pros this past summer....he had me go at sequencing a little differently. A hollow plastic rod about 3’ long with a 15’ rope inside....whip it back and forth like a fly rod to get the follow through right....;seemed to help.

                              Then had me put aiming rods in the ground and sing underneath one at a 45* angle towards me. The helped. Did a lot of practising after, but will require extensive work over the winter to groove it....
                              Attached Files
                              Callaway Epic SZ, Evenflow 65gm Reg, 45"
                              Callaway Rogue 13*, Evenflow 75 gm reg flex
                              Callaway Rogue 15*, Evenflow 75 gm, reg flex
                              Callaway Rogue 21* Hybrid, Aldila Rogue Black 85 gm
                              TM P790 irons, 5-AW, DG R300U 105gm
                              Titleist Vokey 52*/8 and 58*/8 SM6 wedges
                              Scotty Cameron Newport 2, 33”

                              Comment


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