Anyone using Stack & Tilt ?

[veryold]

Hitting the Driver really nicely but irons NOT SO MUCH

So, after watching some S&T instructions, tried it and WOW, nice, crisp, CONSISTENT iron shots.
***BUT*** (there is always one of those in life, LOL) the reverse with the driver - too low and left.

So, anyone tried/using S&T and does it work equally well for irons as well as for Driver for u ?

All best and cheers

...will try 3W of the tee today with it and see what happens

[nomullies]

I've been on and off with it all summer. Less sway for me is good. Agreed it didn't help my driver. I guess I'm still on the fence with it.

As an aside, I played with a guy last week with a 10 finger grip and 3/4 backswing. Hit the ball very straight and surprisingly long. Scored 103 mostly due to zero short game.

[ping1-a]

It's not an ideal way to swing because you aren't using ground forces properly. It might be doable when you are young and strong but definitely isn't going to work for a senior. It's also the complete opposite of what you want when hitting the driver.

[veryold]

I've been on and off with it all summer. Less sway for me is good. Agreed it didn't help my driver. I guess I'm still on the fence with it.

As an aside, I played with a guy last week with a 10 finger grip and 3/4 backswing. Hit the ball very straight and surprisingly long. Scored 103 mostly due to zero short game.

Love "SWAY" with the Driver, but I guess, Irons don't "like" it, LOL.

Something a la Moe Norman ???

U still with 3W of the tee, or the DRIVER is back in the bag ?

[nomullies]

Love "SWAY" with the Driver, but I guess, Irons don't "like" it, LOL.

Something a la Moe Norman ???

U still with 3W of the tee, or the DRIVER is back in the bag ?

Driver. Close the stance to combat OTT and push right hand down to knee before gripping to help tilt and swing up. For the most part doing OK. It's the irons that are mostly inconsistent. That and the always terrible chipping. Tried hinge and hold but it was hinge and stop.

[veryold]

Driver. Close the stance to combat OTT and push right hand down to knee before gripping to help tilt and swing up. For the most part doing OK. It's the irons that are mostly inconsistent. That and the always terrible chipping. Tried hinge and hold but it was hinge and stop.

Is it the very short chips, like around the greens, or longer ones, like from 10-20 yards that's giving u troubles ?

[nomullies]

Is it the very short chips, like around the greens, or longer ones, like from 10-20 yards that's giving u troubles ?

Lol yes and yes. I have some success around the greens with a vertical approach. I saw a good video that suggested less wrists but to follow through with some body twice as long as the back stroke.

Video: https://youtu.be/rDRzEh-3LcE

Which may help because I tend to stop at the ball altogether.

[veryold]

Lol yes and yes. I have some success around the greens with a vertical approach. I saw a good video that suggested less wrists but to follow through with some body twice as long as the back stroke.

Video: https://youtu.be/rDRzEh-3LcE

Which may help because I tend to stop at the ball altogether.

The "no wrist" method he describes is OK from nice lies and short grass, but if the ball is sitting down, even in 2" rough, that method is basically useless and you want be all wrists, while steeply "picking" up the club. At least that's what I do

[SmoothBomber]

It's not an ideal way to swing because you aren't using ground forces properly. It might be doable when you are young and strong but definitely isn't going to work for a senior. It's also the complete opposite of what you want when hitting the driver.

When done right you still use ground forces to whip the club. Shawn Clement has a series of videos called 'tilted spiral' which is a gravity player's version of stack and tilt....still S/T but with gravity as the driver (and ground forces as the gas pedal). Very easy on the back, effortlessly powerful, and as mentioned by others good low point control for crisp contact.

Regarding Driver for OP, I agree with nomullies that you have to be a bit closed with the driver (I actually play more closed through the bag when I use this method). The feel on the driver is def to swing in to out right of target for me. When I just set up like with my irons and have an at target swing path feel I get the same low pull draw you described. There is also more tilt with the driver just as with any method compared to irons, which makes it easier to bottom before the ball and hit it on upswing.

[chachi1984]

This method destroyed so many swings . If you want to hit driver long and far you need a 3-4 positive AOA

[veryold]

When done right you still use ground forces to whip the club. Shawn Clement has a series of videos called 'tilted spiral' which is a gravity player's version of stack and tilt....still S/T but with gravity as the driver (and ground forces as the gas pedal). Very easy on the back, effortlessly powerful, and as mentioned by others good low point control for crisp contact.

Regarding Driver for OP, I agree with nomullies that you have to be a bit closed with the driver (I actually play more closed through the bag when I use this method). The feel on the driver is def to swing in to out right of target for me. When I just set up like with my irons and have an at target swing path feel I get the same low pull draw you described. There is also more tilt with the driver just as with any method compared to irons, which makes it easier to bottom before the ball and hit it on upswing.

Had just wonderful time today working on S&T (was THE ONLY ONE on the entire course, LOL) and here are some bits:

Not sure on the meaning of the "GROUND FORCE(S)" but if it means to PUSH OFF WITH THE LEAD LEG AGAINST THE GROUND, S&T allows it, for sure. This is because the lead knee "juts" outward and bends during backswing, allowing to wonderfully jump of it thru impact !!! Borgmeier explains this best, IMO.

Driver is indeed a bit tricky, but weaking the grip somewhat got me hitting higher trajectory drives with less draw.

[NineNineSix]

This method destroyed so many swings . If you want to hit driver long and far you need a 3-4 positive AOA

Bingo.

S&T felt great hitting little 3/4 irons, but (for me at least) it cost me height and distance with the irons and was a disaster with the driver.

[TMAzng01f3R]

Hitting the Driver really nicely but irons NOT SO MUCH

So, after watching some S&T instructions, tried it and WOW, nice, crisp, CONSISTENT iron shots.
***BUT*** (there is always one of those in life, LOL) the reverse with the driver - too low and left.

So, anyone tried/using S&T and does it work equally well for irons as well as for Driver for u ?

All best and cheers

...will try 3W of the tee today with it and see what happens

I was using stack & tilt for my iron shots only because it made it easier for me to compress the ball (gained 15 ish yds due to de-lofting the club). But my instructor noticed I had a reverse pivot going on as well, and that I was 'standing up' in my shots but it only worked for me because I guess I made the necessary compensations to get the timing of it correct.

But if my swing is not in rhythm, I'm subject to over-the-top/early extension/vicious pulls so thus, have reverted to a not-so-stacked and titled swing for my irons...

[NickStarchuk]

This method destroyed so many swings . If you want to hit driver long and far you need a 3-4 positive AOA

Destroyed swings? Couldn’t be further from fact. If YOU want to hit it far, find 3 up AoA, but most professionals don’t hit 3 up on a driver, but you know that the tour Average is negative with the driver.

some guys hit 5-6 up and no one hits 5-6 down, so when it comes to averages, the Majority don’t hit UP.

Andy Plummer is the smartest instructor in the world and that’s come from many many of the “top” instructors we see on lists. His pedigree is unmatched.

The pressure trace with this pattern is just fine. It’s different from other swing patterns just like it’s supposed to be. Troy Matheson lead the tour for months hitting 3 down and “bowling” it down the fairway. I’m sure he used his feet just fine to lead the league. “You can’t hit driver with S&T” is always said from someone not doing it right.

there isn’t one correct swing pattern. They all work. Most don’t understand everything with S&T and that’s ok because it’s the most in depth system to strike the all out there. They have educated more instructors than anyone in North America, especially if you consider that Golftec University is founded in S&T principles. I consistently recommend any new teachers to take the course. One of Canada’s best Pga pro said it was the best lesson he’s ever had (see the picture).

there isn’t one correct pressure trace. Many work, depending on what the player is trying to accomplish, ie. the trace on a wedge is way different than a long drive contestant.

Don’t mix these up. Don’t look at Matt Kuchar’s trail foot weight and reverse pressure trace and say it’s bad without recognizing he needs to do that in order to hit a pull cut. Things have to go together making Many things work.

[veryold]

Destroyed swings? Couldn’t be further from fact. If YOU want to hit it far, find 3 up AoA, but most professionals don’t hit 3 up on a driver, but you know that the tour Average is negative with the driver.

some guys hit 5-6 up and no one hits 5-6 down, so when it comes to averages, the Majority don’t hit UP.

Andy Plummer is the smartest instructor in the world and that’s come from many many of the “top” instructors we see on lists. His pedigree is unmatched.

The pressure trace with this pattern is just fine. It’s different from other swing patterns just like it’s supposed to be. Troy Matheson lead the tour for months hitting 3 down and “bowling” it down the fairway. I’m sure he used his feet just fine to lead the league. “You can’t hit driver with S&T” is always said from someone not doing it right.

there isn’t one correct swing pattern. They all work. Most don’t understand everything with S&T and that’s ok because it’s the most in depth system to strike the all out there. They have educated more instructors than anyone in North America, especially if you consider that Golftec University is founded in S&T principles. I consistently recommend any new teachers to take the course. One of Canada’s best Pga pro said it was the best lesson he’s ever had (see the picture).

there isn’t one correct pressure trace. Many work, depending on what the player is trying to accomplish, ie. the trace on a wedge is way different than a long drive contestant.

Don’t mix these up. Don’t look at Matt Kuchar’s trail foot weight and reverse pressure trace and say it’s bad without recognizing he needs to do that in order to hit a pull cut. Things have to go together making Many things work.

Sorry to bother you, but maybe you can clarify for this old brain: are you saying that S&T is a "good thing" and should be used/adopted ?
...so far (as of yesterday, LOL) i am working on it and really LIKING IT, but again, I had many "love affairs" over the years with different swings that eventually ended up in bitter divorces