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in 1962, it was legal to putt with the flagstick in place?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by kimi View Post

    My take would be from etiquette and pace of play perspective.
    Unless everyone in the group shares the same preference, on the green could devolve into put-the-flag-in, take-it-out, put-it-back-in, take-it-out... as different players putt.

    If this were to happen, players should continue to putt and hole out with their own flagstick preference.
    Hey, even if you have to step on someone else's line, they can now fix any spike mark!
    I can tell you with certainty that this happening. Having played several rounds this past week in Orlando, this flagstick business is causing problems. Exactly as you state. Every golfer I’ve been paired with has a different take, doesn’t know what to do and we can’t just assume to remove the flag. We now have to ask “in or out” on every #%@#& putt and It’s throwing off the “rhythm” indeed creating slow play.

    The average amateur really isn’t gaining anything unless it stops a downhill putt. Take the goddamm flag out!
    – Greg

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    • #17
      Originally posted by synergy View Post

      I can tell you with certainty that this happening. Having played several rounds this past week in Orlando, this flagstick business is causing problems. Exactly as you state. Every golfer I’ve been paired with has a different take, doesn’t know what to do and we can’t just assume to remove the flag. We now have to ask “in or out” on every #%@#& putt and It’s throwing off the “rhythm” indeed creating slow play.

      The average amateur really isn’t gaining anything unless it stops a downhill putt. Take the goddamm flag out!
      It's only the 2nd week of the new rule. I think it will be a non-issue by the end of the season.

      Given all the data (confirmed by DeChambeau's testing) shows you're better off with the flag in, I'd take the opposite approach; Leave the goddamm flag in!.

      I don't like the look and feel of it being in but here's my plan: Practice a bunch of putts with it in, then go play. In reality.... most people do that on the putting green, but I don't think the average stick on the average putting green works the same as a real one on the course. Maybe courses will address that over time.
      "Confusion" will be my epitaph
      ...Iggy

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      • #18
        More data points from My Golf Spy - best to leave the flagstick IN!

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        • #19
          Of course, the results are only applicable if you have the accuracy to hit the 3/4 inch diameter flagstick from the distance you are from the hole. From watching many, many putts, that doesn't happen often! However, the Rules do permit you to leave the flagstick in - the choice is yours.

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          • #20
            In our competition last week, I tried putting with the pin in for the first 4 holes. I think my subconscious came into play as I didn't even touch the pin on putts that normally would. The brain needs to be trained to accept hitting the pin as a good thing.

            After the 4 holes, I removed the pin and putt lights out for the rest of the round.

            I'm personally not ready to putt with it in for the majority of shorter putts. Longer putts aren't an issue as you don't expect to hole them, and if anything, the flag helps as a target.

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            • #21
              Another thing to consider with pin in/pin out is this: On every course I have EVER played during the regular season(ie not when a course is 'closed' but still allowing play) the practice green has flags in the holes. We practice putt with flags in and then used to go out and play with flags out!. At least now you can practice putt and then play under the same conditions if you choose to.

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              • #22
                On the weekend I watched some of the Latn American Amatuer Champioship http://www.laacgolf.com/

                Saw a guy on the green leave the pin in on a 60 foot putt. He lagged it to about 18 inches.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by synergy View Post

                  I can tell you with certainty that this happening. Having played several rounds this past week in Orlando, this flagstick business is causing problems. Exactly as you state. Every golfer I’ve been paired with has a different take, doesn’t know what to do and we can’t just assume to remove the flag. We now have to ask “in or out” on every #%@#& putt and It’s throwing off the “rhythm” indeed creating slow play.

                  The average amateur really isn’t gaining anything unless it stops a downhill putt. Take the goddamm flag out!
                  No chance I’m leaving it in every time don’t care what others are thinking about it because there is an advantage there in a lot of cases. Also the fact in most rounds there are a ton of guys that intentially stand on the other side of the green and look around like they are lost just to avoid being the guy to take it out( or put the thing back in for that matter) so I end up walking all the way across the green and back to take the danm thing out. Rules changed that thing is staying in the danm hole.

                  Biggest thing that that will speed up rounds is the 3 minute rule. Can’t tell you how many times I see a guy looking for a ball for 10 minutes plus on a course

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Tphilp View Post


                    Biggest thing that that will speed up rounds is the 3 minute rule. Can’t tell you how many times I see a guy looking for a ball for 10 minutes plus on a course
                    Yeah but that guy is still going to take 10 minutes. If they ignore the 5 minute time limit, why wouldn't they also ignore the 3 minute?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by wlorcb View Post

                      Yeah but that guy is still going to take 10 minutes. If they ignore the 5 minute time limit, why wouldn't they also ignore the 3 minute?
                      That's the guy that you leave behind and finish the hole with the rest of your group.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tphilp View Post

                        Biggest thing that that will speed up rounds is the 3 minute rule. Can’t tell you how many times I see a guy looking for a ball for 10 minutes plus on a course
                        Originally posted by wlorcb View Post

                        Yeah but that guy is still going to take 10 minutes. If they ignore the 5 minute time limit, why wouldn't they also ignore the 3 minute?
                        Originally posted by johnny canuck View Post

                        That's the guy that you leave behind and finish the hole with the rest of your group.
                        We have people in our group who are dedicated ball hunters. I can never tell if they have lost their own ball or are just out looking for lost balls.

                        Typical conversation....Did you see where your ball went in? Oh my ball is over there, on the fairway.


                        Fortunately there are no rules limiting the number of golf balls you can carry during a match!

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                        • #27
                          I'll go with this guy's theory: https://youtu.be/Mc90UbpJbuM
                          Last edited by 4underthru9; Feb 2, 2019, 10:02 AM.
                          Resolve to be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant with the weak and wrong, because sometime in your life, you will have been all of these. Dr. Robert H. Goddard




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                          • #28
                            Much like having someone tend the pin on a long putt gives you better perception of the distance, leaving the flag in should provide the same effect.
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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Pingeye2_fan View Post
                              Much like having someone tend the pin on a long putt gives you better perception of the distance, leaving the flag in should provide the same effect.
                              How? Most people look at the ball while they're putting.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Benz View Post

                                How? Most people look at the ball while they're putting.
                                I read this from David Pelz a while back as well. He said it aided when determining how hard to hit a putt as the perception of distance was more accurate with the larger target.

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