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New Rules regarding OB and Hazrds

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Benz View Post

    As I recall, he hit a fairway wood quite a distance into a pond that was in front of the left half of the green (the pond was not staked and therefore could not be considered a lateral hazard). He hit from the right side of the fairway nd the ball flight was a high draw into the left side of the pond. He asserted that he was allowed to drop anywhere along the 'line of flight' of the ball, which would allow him to drop without having the pond between the ball and the green. I said that the flight of the ball was irrelevant, and that the only thing that mattered was where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard. Chaos ensued.
    Thanks, I figgered there was more to the story.
    "Confusion" will be my epitaph
    ...Iggy

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Benz View Post

      As I recall, he hit a fairway wood quite a distance into a pond that was in front of the left half of the green (the pond was not staked and therefore could not be considered a lateral hazard).
      On the contrary. The pond IS a penalty area. "A penalty area is: Any body of water on the course (whether or not marked by the Committee)..."

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Shadow View Post
        On the contrary. The pond IS a penalty area. "A penalty area is: Any body of water on the course (whether or not marked by the Committee)..."
        Just to clarify, this happened several years ago, before the age of 'penalty areas'.

        I said that the pond could not be considered a 'lateral hazard'. I did not say that it could not be considered a water hazard (i.e. penalty area in today's terminology). The pond in question was not bounded by red stakes. In their absence, the pond had to be considered a water hazard, which limited the player's options regarding where to drop.
        Sage of the GTA...

        Comment


        • #49
          It would depend on whether or not it satisfied the definition of a Lateral Water Hazard. 26/3
          Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
          - Chi Chi Rodriguez

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by aaagc View Post
            It would depend on whether or not it satisfied the definition of a Lateral Water Hazard. 26/3
            AFIK, a lateral water hazard is one "so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed ... impracticable, to drop a ball behind" it.

            In the case I described, it was clearly possible and practicable to drop a ball 'behind' the hazard, which is exactly why my buddy wanted to drop along the 'line of flight' of the ball before it crossed the margin of the hazard.
            Sage of the GTA...

            Comment


            • #51
              Ok, so I have a question regarding dropping after putting a ball into the water.

              Last year at Glen Abbey I watched one of the players tee off on 14. The creek runs on an angle (using a clock reference) of about 8 to 2.

              The player's tee shot went into the creek.

              After a brief discussion with his playing partner, he dropped on the hole side of the creek, left of where his ball crossed into the creek but not closer to the hole than where the ball crossed the edge of the creek.

              Using the clock analogy again, if the creek runs on a line from 8 to 2, he splashed into the creek at 2 but dropped along the hole side of the creek on a line running from 9 to 3.

              I assume that was ok because he dropped no closer to the hole?

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Cdntac View Post
                Ok, so I have a question regarding dropping after putting a ball into the water.

                Last year at Glen Abbey I watched one of the players tee off on 14. The creek runs on an angle (using a clock reference) of about 8 to 2.

                The player's tee shot went into the creek.

                After a brief discussion with his playing partner, he dropped on the hole side of the creek, left of where his ball crossed into the creek but not closer to the hole than where the ball crossed the edge of the creek.

                Using the clock analogy again, if the creek runs on a line from 8 to 2, he splashed into the creek at 2 but dropped along the hole side of the creek on a line running from 9 to 3.

                I assume that was ok because he dropped no closer to the hole?
                That does not make sense to me unless the flight of the ball crossed over the creek then curved into it because of the creek angle. I would think that he would hit 3 from before the creek, but that drop is in the tall scruff, or he could tee it up again.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Benz View Post

                  AFIK, a lateral water hazard is one "so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed ... impracticable, to drop a ball behind" it.

                  In the case I described, it was clearly possible and practicable to drop a ball 'behind' the hazard, which is exactly why my buddy wanted to drop along the 'line of flight' of the ball before it crossed the margin of the hazard.
                  He should have worked to 'back on line' rather than 'line of flight. The relief is only concerned with the place of reference not the route the ball took.
                  The only relevant line is that from the hole through the reference point.
                  As it wasn't marked and it seems he could have got to the correct side, it was not a lateral.
                  Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
                  - Chi Chi Rodriguez

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cdntac View Post
                    Ok, so I have a question regarding dropping after putting a ball into the water.

                    Last year at Glen Abbey I watched one of the players tee off on 14. The creek runs on an angle (using a clock reference) of about 8 to 2.

                    The player's tee shot went into the creek.

                    After a brief discussion with his playing partner, he dropped on the hole side of the creek, left of where his ball crossed into the creek but not closer to the hole than where the ball crossed the edge of the creek.

                    Using the clock analogy again, if the creek runs on a line from 8 to 2, he splashed into the creek at 2 but dropped along the hole side of the creek on a line running from 9 to 3.

                    I assume that was ok because he dropped no closer to the hole?
                    Was this marked red or yellow? If yellow, it sounds like he played from the wrong place.
                    If red, he was OK providing where he dropped was within 2cl of a point equidistant from the point of entry on the entry side and not nearer the hole than the entry point.

                    But I am a little surprised if it was red. However, the geometry of the fairway/line of creek/direction to green/position of hole could mean that 'back on line' was not practicable for that creek.
                    Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
                    - Chi Chi Rodriguez

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by aaagc View Post

                      He should have worked to 'back on line' rather than 'line of flight. The relief is only concerned with the place of reference not the route the ball took.
                      The only relevant line is that from the hole through the reference point.
                      As it wasn't marked and it seems he could have got to the correct side, it was not a lateral.
                      Agreed, and that's what I told him.

                      He was trying to avoid having to make his next shot having the pond between himself and the green.
                      Sage of the GTA...

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Naughty
                        Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
                        - Chi Chi Rodriguez

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by ndrpar View Post

                          That does not make sense to me unless the flight of the ball crossed over the creek then curved into it because of the creek angle. I would think that he would hit 3 from before the creek, but that drop is in the tall scruff, or he could tee it up again.
                          That what I would have thought. I was going to ask a rules official (not to potentially cause an issue with the player but for my own curiosity.)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by aaagc View Post

                            Was this marked red or yellow? If yellow, it sounds like he played from the wrong place.
                            If red, he was OK providing where he dropped was within 2cl of a point equidistant from the point of entry on the entry side and not nearer the hole than the entry point.

                            But I am a little surprised if it was red. However, the geometry of the fairway/line of creek/direction to green/position of hole could mean that 'back on line' was not practicable for that creek.


                            EDITED --- I found the Shot Tracker for that hole.

                            I can't remember whether yellow or red.

                            Here's the Shot Tracker image showing how he played the hole.

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	59A61677-FCCB-4324-872A-D2EC70E1208F.jpeg
Views:	225
Size:	43.1 KB
ID:	2909088

                            Last edited by Cdntac; Jan 13, 2019, 08:01 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by aaagc View Post

                              Was this marked red or yellow? If yellow, it sounds like he played from the wrong place.
                              If red, he was OK providing where he dropped was within 2cl of a point equidistant from the point of entry on the entry side and not nearer the hole than the entry point.

                              But I am a little surprised if it was red. However, the geometry of the fairway/line of creek/direction to green/position of hole could mean that 'back on line' was not practicable for that creek.
                              As mentioned by aaagc, red stake it must be. On the tee side of that creek is a forest and tall scruffy marshy fun stuff which you would be lucky to advance 1 foot.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                So he went equaidistant from the hole on the opposite side of the hazard, based on where it crossed the hazard, correct?

                                I put a ball in that same spot once and dropped in the scrub on the tee side of the hole. Stupid me for not knowing my allowed drop areas.

                                Comment


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