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New Rules regarding OB and Hazrds

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  • #61
    The stakes on that hole are actually measured to the centre of the green and the player that goes in off the tee can use the opposite margin equidistant from the flagstick and drop within 2 club lengths of that point. I'm not sure if that will be the same with the new rules as they will have to institute a local rule to have that drop available.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Cdntac View Post



      EDITED --- I found the Shot Tracker for that hole.

      I can't remember whether yellow or red.

      Here's the Shot Tracker image showing how he played the hole.

      Click image for larger version  Name:	59A61677-FCCB-4324-872A-D2EC70E1208F.jpeg Views:	1 Size:	43.1 KB ID:	2909088
      Have I got this right?
      He hit to 1 and then dropped at 2.

      If so, he should have dropped on the opposite of the creek to 1 equidistant to the hole from 1.

      The diagram suggests he went a lot further back from the hole.

      THe distance from 2 to 4 is a lot longer than 1 to 4
      Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
      - Chi Chi Rodriguez

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      • #63
        Originally posted by gbower View Post
        The stakes on that hole are actually measured to the centre of the green and the player that goes in off the tee can use the opposite margin equidistant from the flagstick and drop within 2 club lengths of that point. I'm not sure if that will be the same with the new rules as they will have to institute a local rule to have that drop available.
        What do you mean "measured to the centre of the green"? Is this a local rule for GA on that hole?

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by aaagc View Post

          Have I got this right?
          He hit to 1 and then dropped at 2.

          If so, he should have dropped on the opposite of the creek to 1 equidistant to the hole from 1.

          The diagram suggests he went a lot further back from the hole.

          THe distance from 2 to 4 is a lot longer than 1 to 4
          After I saw the Shot Link diagram I remembered it more clearly. Yes, he did drop much further back --- right at point 2.

          Should the drop point be based where the ball splashed or where it crossed over the creek? Maybe the ball had crossed over the creek approximately even with point 2 (aiming at the largest fairway bunker from the tee) but it sliced so much that it continued carrying along with the creek and splashed at point 1 --- therefore the drop was required to be at point 2?
          Last edited by Cdntac; Jan 13, 2019, 11:50 AM.

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          • #65
            It is red staked.
            Click image for larger version

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Cdntac View Post

              After I saw the Shot Link diagram I remembered it more clearly. Yes, he did drop much further back --- right at point 2.

              Should the drop point be based where the ball splashed or where it crossed over the creek? Maybe the ball had crossed over the creek approximately even with point 2 (aiming at the largest fairway bunker from the tee) but it sliced so much that it continued carrying along with the creek and splashed at point 1 --- therefore the drop was required to be at point 2?
              Where it last crossed the margin of the creek. If he dropped at 2 then he must have judged that the ball crossed at just opposite 2.
              Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
              - Chi Chi Rodriguez

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Cdntac View Post

                After I saw the Shot Link diagram I remembered it more clearly. Yes, he did drop much further back --- right at point 2.

                Should the drop point be based where the ball splashed or where it crossed over the creek? Maybe the ball had crossed over the creek approximately even with point 2 (aiming at the largest fairway bunker from the tee) but it sliced so much that it continued carrying along with the creek and splashed at point 1 --- therefore the drop was required to be at point 2?
                point 2 definitely appears like a weird spot on the surface, but I'm surmising it's about where the ball crossed the margin of the hazard. With the way that creek bends, if he was a righty and the ball was cutting on him, it could've crossed the margin at one spot closer to where Point 2 is versus where the ball ultimately came to rest.
                What's in the bag?
                TM M2
                Cobra F6 fairway woods and irons
                PING Sigma G Putter
                Les Grossman: "I'm talking G5. Playa, playa"

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                • #68
                  Thx. That makes sense.

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                  • #69
                    As gbower has correctly wrote, the Committee in charge of the Canadian Open anticipates such issues on that hole and puts down paint marks on each side of the water that are equidistant to the front of the green. This is meant to help the players find the spot on the opposite edge and facilitate pace of play.

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                    • #70
                      Sorry I said the middle of the green but should have been front as that's where it would be dotted and able to judge the distance to the flagstick from the pin sheets. I had a look at that hole the end of November and figure if they get a Canadian Open back there that they will keep the local rule in for the opposite margin.

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                      • #71
                        1. BALL LOST or OUT OF BOUNDS



                        “When a player’s ball cannot be found or is known or virtually certain to be out of bounds, the player may proceed as follows rather than proceeding under stroke and distance



                        For two penalty strokes, the player may take relief by dropping the original ball or a substituted ball in this relief area (see Rule 14.3):

                        Two Estimated Reference Points:

                        a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball:

                        · Isestimated to have come to rest on the course, or

                        · Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.



                        b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

                        For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

                        Size of Relief Area Based on Reference Points: Anywhere between:

                        · A line from the hole through the ball reference point (or within two club-lengths to the outside of that line), and



                        · A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (or within two club-lengths to the outside of that line).



                        But with these limits:

                        Limits on Location of Relief Area:

                        · Must be in the general area, and

                        · Must not be nearer the hole than the ball reference point.


                        But the player may not use this option when:

                        · The ball is known or virtually certain to have come to rest in a penalty area, or

                        · The player has played another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 18.3).”


                        This is #7 of the Local Rules for Olympic View Golf Course. We did not implement the equidistant rule for red staked penalty areas as the player would not be "seriously disadvantaged" by not having that option. Note that if you hit a ball into a penalty area this is off the table as well as when you hit a provisional ball.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by aaagc View Post

                          Using your terminology, which is not exactly how the R&A would put it.

                          Penalty Areas
                          Yellow Stake- Back to location of last shot , or behind the hazard
                          Red Stake- Back to location of last shot, behind the hazard or 2cl from point of entry
                          Out of Bounds
                          White Stake- Back to location of last shot

                          For a proper understanding of penalty areas see
                          https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/ru...dition/rule-17

                          and for Out of Bounds see
                          https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/ru...dition/rule-18
                          The only thing I can add to this is regarding Yellow and Red Staked Penalty Areas .... when you take relief " On line " back from the point of reference where your ball went into the Penalty Area, you have the flexibility of one club length ( Measured with Driver ) either side of the Reference line. you do not need to be on the line. Lateral Relief is only used for Red Staked Penalty areas

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by nomullies View Post
                            Let's say I hit it off the tee into a forested area, either on the fly or it bounced in. Can't find the ball or don't want to lol. Not sure about the stake colour. For pace of play reasons we usually drop near where it went in and take a stroke, hitting 3. I thought I read doing this should actually be 2 strokes, hitting 4. Can someone clarify? Perhaps with regards to the various coloured stakes. I didn't read or hear anything above with regards to two strokes.
                            I was asking myself the same question and read through this tread. What I come to from this discussion is that if the ball went into the forested area and cannot be found, and the area is not marked as a penalty area, the lost ball can be played under the new local rule for lost balls.

                            However, if the ball is found in the forested area, which is not OB or marked as a penalty area, and the ball cannot be played, the only relief is to play it as an unplayable ball, using one of the 3 options under that rule.

                            I know these are not the official terms or details, but I think this is how things would shake out. It all comes down to whether the area is marked or not, whether you find the ball, and if it is playable or not, to determine which rules apply.



                            Fortunately there are no rules limiting the number of golf balls you can carry during a match!

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Fore Warned View Post

                              I was asking myself the same question and read through this tread. What I come to from this discussion is that if the ball went into the forested area and cannot be found, and the area is not marked as a penalty area, the lost ball can be played under the new local rule for lost balls.

                              However, if the ball is found in the forested area, which is not OB or marked as a penalty area, and the ball cannot be played, the only relief is to play it as an unplayable ball, using one of the 3 options under that rule.

                              I know these are not the official terms or details, but I think this is how things would shake out. It all comes down to whether the area is marked or not, whether you find the ball, and if it is playable or not, to determine which rules apply.
                              I suspect that we are in for a long season, rules-wise, and there may be a few 'creative interpretations' regarding the new rule(s) surrounding lost balls in non-tournament play.

                              For example, take the 'unplayable' scenario described above. If the player has hit a provisional ball for lost/OB, then the provisional ball is out of play as soon as the original is found. If the original ball is in deep peril in the forested area, then the player may opt to go back and replay the stroke. However, that is not always practical in non-competition circumstances, leaving the player with the 'two club length' option or the 'straight line back' option. These options have the potential to rack up a big number, depending on the location of the ball. Given this, I would expect to see a lot of balls in this type of situation being 'declared lost' and the player dropping in a fairway under a penalty of two strokes.
                              Sage of the GTA...

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Benz View Post

                                I suspect that we are in for a long season, rules-wise, and there may be a few 'creative interpretations' regarding the new rule(s) surrounding lost balls in non-tournament play.

                                For example, take the 'unplayable' scenario described above. If the player has hit a provisional ball for lost/OB, then the provisional ball is out of play as soon as the original is found. If the original ball is in deep peril in the forested area, then the player may opt to go back and replay the stroke. However, that is not always practical in non-competition circumstances, leaving the player with the 'two club length' option or the 'straight line back' option. These options have the potential to rack up a big number, depending on the location of the ball. Given this, I would expect to see a lot of balls in this type of situation being 'declared lost' and the player dropping in a fairway under a penalty of two strokes.
                                Totally agree. I think we are on the same page as far as interpreting the rules in these situations.

                                However, I also think a lot of people in the circumstances you describe above will continue to do what they have always done and simply drop a ball in the presumed vicinity of the lost ball, to hit a 3rd shot, totally ignoring the two stroke penalty relief as provided for under the new rules.

                                The casual dismissal of "Stroke and Distance" penalties is made just called into question.

                                I am sure there may be some interesting discussions this season on the numbers to be entered as scores, if people are paying attention to the new rules. They will, or should, be cause for serious consideration of how an errant drive or shot that flies off into the deep woods or fescue is accounted for.








                                Fortunately there are no rules limiting the number of golf balls you can carry during a match!

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