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Players at The Players not knowing rules costs them on 17

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  • #61
    Originally posted by rulie View Post

    Think about the relief that Vijay took, I'll speculate that his reference point was actually about 1/2 inch inside the penalty area (and on the reference line).
    I didn't see it.
    This seems to be quite a significant difference.
    So if we have a hazard boundary that is perfectly straight, the arc formed by the distance from the hole provides an opportunity to drop on the same side of the hazard the ball entered. In the context of an island green, this could provide significant relief opportunities that were previously unavailable.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by rulie View Post

      One minor reminder - Rule 17.1d(2) does not require that the reference point be outside the penalty area, just that it is on the reference line and no closer to the hole that where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area.
      So let me get this straight... playing towards the grey hole, ball follows white line hits on green side of the penalty area but rolls back into the water.
      Black reference line from the hole to the point where the ball last crossed into penalty area.
      Red dot is reference point, which is further from the hole than where the ball last crossed - but is allowed to be in the penalty area?
      Then one-club gives pink semi-circle.
      So, can drop in the small pink area shown that is not in the penalty area?

      Click image for larger version

Name:	refa area.jpg
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ID:	2939006

      Comment


      • #63
        I believe that is question that has been asked of the R&A/USGA and is awaiting a response..
        Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
        - Chi Chi Rodriguez

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by aaagc View Post
          I believe that is question that has been asked of the R&A/USGA and is awaiting a response..
          Without such clarification, imo, the answer is yes, the ball may be dropped in that portion of the relief area which is outside the penalty area.

          Comment


          • #65
            Tiger should have known all this!

            I'm going to change my original post based on all this new information.

            Apparently Tiger was "addled" by the complexity of the new rules in this situation... Nothing to do with the ball going into the pond. It's not like he had any other pressures on him at the time.

            66 posts about how he should have known better, and 1 outstanding question awaiting response from the R&A.

            I may switch to birding this summer. Simpler.

            "Confusion" will be my epitaph
            ...Iggy

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Ignatius Reilly View Post
              Tiger should have known all this!

              I'm going to change my original post based on all this new information.

              Apparently Tiger was "addled" by the complexity of the new rules in this situation... Nothing to do with the ball going into the pond. It's not like he had any other pressures on him at the time.

              66 posts about how he should have known better, and 1 outstanding question awaiting response from the R&A.

              I may switch to birding this summer. Simpler.
              Tiger's situation was more straightforward and would have lead to much closer relief even under the old rules. The concept of a relief area and that the reference point can be in the PA has lead to an unintended consequence of a closer point where you can drop in some circumstances. One thing that threw me in looking at the new rules is that the total number of rules has been reduced and renumbered.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by rulie View Post

                Without such clarification, imo, the answer is yes, the ball may be dropped in that portion of the relief area which is outside the penalty area.
                That couldn't have been the rule-makers INTENT, could it?
                Oh wait, INTENT isn't factored into it.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Why do I believe that every two years the Pope reviews the changes to the rules of golf and just laughs his head off?
                  Sage of the GTA...

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Ignatius Reilly View Post
                    Tiger should have known all this!

                    I'm going to change my original post based on all this new information.

                    Apparently Tiger was "addled" by the complexity of the new rules in this situation... Nothing to do with the ball going into the pond. It's not like he had any other pressures on him at the time.

                    66 posts about how he should have known better, and 1 outstanding question awaiting response from the R&A.

                    I may switch to birding this summer. Simpler.
                    66 posts, including several "rabbit holes" that were off-topic (only casually related).

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by kimi View Post

                      So let me get this straight... playing towards the grey hole, ball follows white line hits on green side of the penalty area but rolls back into the water.
                      Black reference line from the hole to the point where the ball last crossed into penalty area.
                      Red dot is reference point, which is further from the hole than where the ball last crossed - but is allowed to be in the penalty area?
                      Then one-club gives pink semi-circle.
                      So, can drop in the small pink area shown that is not in the penalty area?

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	refa area.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	32.0 KB
ID:	2939006
                      Exactly. I was working on a diagram, but you beat me to it.

                      P.S. Your diagram is much better than mine.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by rulie View Post

                        Without such clarification, imo, the answer is yes, the ball may be dropped in that portion of the relief area which is outside the penalty area.
                        Tough drop for lefties

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by aaagc

                          Goodness knows why but what I said was nonsense. I've now deleted it.
                          Response deleted, too.

                          We should get jobs at the White House....
                          Sage of the GTA...

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by kimi View Post

                            So let me get this straight... playing towards the grey hole, ball follows white line hits on green side of the penalty area but rolls back into the water.
                            Black reference line from the hole to the point where the ball last crossed into penalty area.
                            Red dot is reference point, which is further from the hole than where the ball last crossed - but is allowed to be in the penalty area?
                            Then one-club gives pink semi-circle.
                            So, can drop in the small pink area shown that is not in the penalty area?

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	refa area.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	32.0 KB
ID:	2939006
                            Originally posted by rulie View Post

                            Without such clarification, imo, the answer is yes, the ball may be dropped in that portion of the relief area which is outside the penalty area.
                            Clarification from USGA, so the pink area is a no-go:


                            Rule 17.1d(2)
                            1. Reference Point for Back-On-the-Line Relief Must Be Outside Penalty Area
                            http://www.usga.org/rules-hub/rulesa...s-of-golf.html

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Makes more sense
                              Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
                              - Chi Chi Rodriguez

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by kimi View Post



                                Clarification from USGA, so the pink area is a no-go:


                                Rule 17.1d(2)
                                1. Reference Point for Back-On-the-Line Relief Must Be Outside Penalty Area
                                http://www.usga.org/rules-hub/rulesa...s-of-golf.html
                                Darn, I was hoping to use that at some point this year. USGA must have been checking the TGN Rules forum prior to publishing its April Clarifications.

                                Comment


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