Players at The Players not knowing rules costs them on 17

[Bern]

Think about the relief that Vijay took, I'll speculate that his reference point was actually about 1/2 inch inside the penalty area (and on the reference line).

I didn't see it.
This seems to be quite a significant difference.
So if we have a hazard boundary that is perfectly straight, the arc formed by the distance from the hole provides an opportunity to drop on the same side of the hazard the ball entered. In the context of an island green, this could provide significant relief opportunities that were previously unavailable.

[kimi]

One minor reminder - Rule 17.1d(2) does not require that the reference point be outside the penalty area, just that it is on the reference line and no closer to the hole that where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area.

So let me get this straight... playing towards the grey hole, ball follows white line hits on green side of the penalty area but rolls back into the water.
Black reference line from the hole to the point where the ball last crossed into penalty area.
Red dot is reference point, which is further from the hole than where the ball last crossed - but is allowed to be in the penalty area?
Then one-club gives pink semi-circle.
So, can drop in the small pink area shown that is not in the penalty area?

[aaagc]

I believe that is question that has been asked of the R&A/USGA and is awaiting a response..

[rulie]

I believe that is question that has been asked of the R&A/USGA and is awaiting a response..

Without such clarification, imo, the answer is yes, the ball may be dropped in that portion of the relief area which is outside the penalty area.

[Ignatius Reilly]

Tiger should have known all this!

I'm going to change my original post based on all this new information.

Apparently Tiger was "addled" by the complexity of the new rules in this situation... Nothing to do with the ball going into the pond. It's not like he had any other pressures on him at the time.

66 posts about how he should have known better, and 1 outstanding question awaiting response from the R&A.

I may switch to birding this summer. Simpler.

[Bern]

Tiger should have known all this!

I'm going to change my original post based on all this new information.

Apparently Tiger was "addled" by the complexity of the new rules in this situation... Nothing to do with the ball going into the pond. It's not like he had any other pressures on him at the time.

66 posts about how he should have known better, and 1 outstanding question awaiting response from the R&A.

I may switch to birding this summer. Simpler.

Tiger's situation was more straightforward and would have lead to much closer relief even under the old rules. The concept of a relief area and that the reference point can be in the PA has lead to an unintended consequence of a closer point where you can drop in some circumstances. One thing that threw me in looking at the new rules is that the total number of rules has been reduced and renumbered.

[kimi]

Without such clarification, imo, the answer is yes, the ball may be dropped in that portion of the relief area which is outside the penalty area.

That couldn't have been the rule-makers INTENT, could it?
Oh wait, INTENT isn't factored into it.

[Benz]

Why do I believe that every two years the Pope reviews the changes to the rules of golf and just laughs his head off?

[rulie]

Tiger should have known all this!

I'm going to change my original post based on all this new information.

Apparently Tiger was "addled" by the complexity of the new rules in this situation... Nothing to do with the ball going into the pond. It's not like he had any other pressures on him at the time.

66 posts about how he should have known better, and 1 outstanding question awaiting response from the R&A.

I may switch to birding this summer. Simpler.

66 posts, including several "rabbit holes" that were off-topic (only casually related).

[ChasingPar]

So let me get this straight... playing towards the grey hole, ball follows white line hits on green side of the penalty area but rolls back into the water.
Black reference line from the hole to the point where the ball last crossed into penalty area.
Red dot is reference point, which is further from the hole than where the ball last crossed - but is allowed to be in the penalty area?
Then one-club gives pink semi-circle.
So, can drop in the small pink area shown that is not in the penalty area?

Exactly. I was working on a diagram, but you beat me to it.

P.S. Your diagram is much better than mine.

[bcampb00]

Without such clarification, imo, the answer is yes, the ball may be dropped in that portion of the relief area which is outside the penalty area.

Tough drop for lefties

[Benz]

Goodness knows why but what I said was nonsense. I've now deleted it.

Response deleted, too.

We should get jobs at the White House....

[kimi]

So let me get this straight... playing towards the grey hole, ball follows white line hits on green side of the penalty area but rolls back into the water.
Black reference line from the hole to the point where the ball last crossed into penalty area.
Red dot is reference point, which is further from the hole than where the ball last crossed - but is allowed to be in the penalty area?
Then one-club gives pink semi-circle.
So, can drop in the small pink area shown that is not in the penalty area?

Without such clarification, imo, the answer is yes, the ball may be dropped in that portion of the relief area which is outside the penalty area.

Clarification from USGA, so the pink area is a no-go:


Rule 17.1d(2)

1. Reference Point for Back-On-the-Line Relief Must Be Outside Penalty Area

http://www.usga.org/rules-hub/rulesa...s-of-golf.html

[aaagc]

Makes more sense

[ChasingPar]

Clarification from USGA, so the pink area is a no-go:


Rule 17.1d(2)

1. Reference Point for Back-On-the-Line Relief Must Be Outside Penalty Area

http://www.usga.org/rules-hub/rulesa...s-of-golf.html

Darn, I was hoping to use that at some point this year. USGA must have been checking the TGN Rules forum prior to publishing its April Clarifications.