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Transgendered and the modern era in golf

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  • #31
    Originally posted by synergy View Post

    You would think someone like that is simply an a-hole. Never mind the transgendered thing, but if they’re knowingly playing with a massive advantage, it’s unsportsmanlike. UnsportsPERSONlike

    Can a Club insist they play from a different set of tees based on handicap? Would that take the whole men vs women league out of the equation? I mean once you get to the 150 mark, we’re all equal, yes?
    They have an official handicap, so the club really can't do too much, without opening themselves up to potentially huge amount of backlash.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by bl8d View Post

      I can't agree with your (underlined) premise. It wouldn't be fair to natural born women,whose testosterone level are at the expected norm for women. We have at the moment Casto Semenya, a tansgendered man ,competing in women's track and it has put the field of normal women at a disadvantage.
      You can go back to the 1936 Berlin Olympics to see what a mess it made there between two competing women one of whom was later diagnosed as having been more man than woman for all her life.
      WE have not yet heard of a transgendering woman wanting to play on the PGA because she/he would be at a great disadvantage

      https://transgriot.blogspot.com/2009...-olympics.html
      Caster Semenya is NOT transgender. It is widely believed that she has intersex traits, meaning she was born with genitalia that has both female and male characteristics, and as a result, she produces much higher levels of testosterone than other women. I do agree that she has an unfair advantage, and I agree that she should be required to take testosterone suppression medication in order to compete with other women. Also, a 'transgender man' is someone who has transitioned from female to male, which is the opposite of what you seemed to be implying in your post.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by johnny canuck View Post

        They have an official handicap, so the club really can't do too much, without opening themselves up to potentially huge amount of backlash.
        The Tournament Committee has the authority, in the Terms of the Competition, to set what tees players play from based on their handicap, regardless of their gender. If players don't agree, they can choose not to play in the competition.

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        • #34
          Allowing those born as men to compete on equal footing with women in any athletic competition is a total travesty outside of things such as darts. No doubt human rights tribunals will 100% disagree but that doesn't make it right.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by vermin40 View Post
            Allowing those born as men to compete on equal footing with women in any athletic competition is a total travesty outside of things such as darts. No doubt human rights tribunals will 100% disagree but that doesn't make it right.
            +1
            Cpl quick facts:
            1. the avg man has 3x the strength of avg woman.
            2. going on testosterone suppression meds means NOTHING since the body developed as a man. Bone structure, size, and a great deal of strength will not be affected. This is the equivalent of letting a woman get roided up to the max for 20 years of training and development, then go off the roids and be allowed to compete against clean athletes.

            Obviously golf is a case not as hard hit as some more athletic sports, but the olympic committee got their ruling on this issue terribly wrong. We are now seeing cases of transgender 'girls' (with all the male parts still) going from being like 700th ranked boys one year to record-shattering no-contest state winners the next in the girls division. Or the male weight lifting champ who had his male records broken, decided he's now a woman and is shattering "women's" records. Ridiculous. Do what you want in your private life but we can't just throw biological differences out the window and deem any man who believes to be a woman an actual woman who is able to compete against legit adult human females (what 'woman' used to mean).

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            • #36
              Rule on the basis of genetics.
              if you are born 46-XY - compete as a man. 46-XX compete as a women.
              Semenya is genetically a man XY karyotype and plain as day looks like a man. Why was she raised as a women? I'm not sure. I'm happy that people have the right to live however they see fit in todays age and do not have to live in persecution. Unfortunately people from these groups cry foul all too quickly and unwilling to compromise at times.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by sunshiNee View Post
                Rule on the basis of genetics.
                if you are born 46-XY - compete as a man. 46-XX compete as a women.
                I still can't believe this wasn't the simple solution put forth by ioc... live as you want, compete based on genetics not 'fluid' thought constructed identity.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by johnny canuck View Post

                  They have an official handicap, so the club really can't do too much, without opening themselves up to potentially huge amount of backlash.
                  Check if they have an official men's or ladies handicap. If they have a men's handicap there will have to be a change re: course ratings. In our case, the rating was 1 shot. Our golfer had joined our club as a female (Golf Canada lists golfers on club rosters as f ((female) )or m ((male)). Luckily there is no change in handicap.

                  Our procedure will be to inform the golfer of the Golf Canada policy for trans gender and if they believe they meet the requirements then we trust in their integrity and will not ask for any medical documentation,

                  The thrust of our work on this situation is to be ready if it occurs. So far it has not. Entries for our CC close on Sunday.

                  If you are involved in your club management, have a look at what you would do if you are presented with this situation.

                  BTW. After our Senior Championships I now know I have a two spirited putter. The evil one and the anti-Christ.

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                  • #39
                    Easy fix, if I was a women at the club with a male trying to pull off this bull-** I would just rally the other women and refuse to compete...

                    not much of a club championship if nobody wants to play.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by sikoram View Post

                      Check if they have an official men's or ladies handicap. If they have a men's handicap there will have to be a change re: course ratings. In our case, the rating was 1 shot. Our golfer had joined our club as a female (Golf Canada lists golfers on club rosters as f ((female) )or m ((male)). Luckily there is no change in handicap.

                      Our procedure will be to inform the golfer of the Golf Canada policy for trans gender and if they believe they meet the requirements then we trust in their integrity and will not ask for any medical documentation,

                      The thrust of our work on this situation is to be ready if it occurs. So far it has not. Entries for our CC close on Sunday.

                      If you are involved in your club management, have a look at what you would do if you are presented with this situation.

                      BTW. After our Senior Championships I now know I have a two spirited putter. The evil one and the anti-Christ.
                      I've got to admit, you've been put in a tough position.

                      I think your handling it extremely well. Congratulations on that.

                      Don't invent anything out of thin air on your own: Go to the relevant authorities (Golf Canada) and use their criteria. For sure, they've had more time and other resources to spend on this than your club has or wants to spend. Putting the onus on the golfer's integrity is probably your only choice.

                      From what's been posted, it seems the critical thing is the time frame. How and when did this person begin their transgendering. If they meet the guidelines for that, who are we (and how are we) to judge differently?

                      It's an interesting development, and one that's not going away. Let us know how things go.

                      As for the comments on how "most" men crush it compared to "most" women.... who cares? I'm pretty sure that our Brooke Henderson could beat every single member of this board, playing from the same tees. I'm not sure who would win a tennis match, the elegant Roger Federer or the powerful Serena Williams. And I don't care about that either....
                      "Confusion" will be my epitaph
                      ...Iggy

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by sikoram View Post

                        Check if they have an official men's or ladies handicap. If they have a men's handicap there will have to be a change re: course ratings. In our case, the rating was 1 shot. Our golfer had joined our club as a female (Golf Canada lists golfers on club rosters as f ((female) )or m ((male)). Luckily there is no change in handicap.

                        Our procedure will be to inform the golfer of the Golf Canada policy for trans gender and if they believe they meet the requirements then we trust in their integrity and will not ask for any medical documentation,

                        The thrust of our work on this situation is to be ready if it occurs. So far it has not. Entries for our CC close on Sunday.

                        If you are involved in your club management, have a look at what you would do if you are presented with this situation.

                        BTW. After our Senior Championships I now know I have a two spirited putter. The evil one and the anti-Christ.
                        "She" had a men's cap, and after the surgery, got a women's cap.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ignatius Reilly View Post

                          I'm not sure who would win a tennis match, the elegant Roger Federer or the powerful Serena Williams.
                          6-1 6-1 roger.
                          There is a metric for tracking stats and Serena is about equivalent to a division 2 NCAA avg male player...there was a deep dive on this when Johnny Mac came out and said Serena would be ranked like 700 on the Men's tour (he was being generous). She actually played a warmup match against a top college man and he smoked her smth like 6-1 6-2.
                          Don't get me wrong, I love both these tennis greats and this isn't me trying to disrespect Serena who is easily the most powerful woman ever to play the game and widely viewed as best ever (I still favor Justine Henin but I am a sucker for a beaut of a one handed backhand). She is a 'powerful player' but only compared to women players. Even the 'finesse' players on the men's tour hit with much more power than she does on top of being faster, superior defenders of the court. Should the 1000th ranked man decide to transition and become a transgender woman and then get allowed into the WTA (travesty, but possible given current stance on this issue by major sport governing bodies), there would instantly be a new best 'woman' tennis player ever and we would really get to see the power difference between the biological sexes.

                          See how I conveniently cut out the part where u say u don't actually care about this ? Spot on about Brooke crushing all comers tho, but that is equivalent of Serena doing same to male amateurs, not taking on arguably the best of all time...that's like pitting Brooke against a top 3 man in the world right now...zero chance from same tees.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Well our transgendered member did not enter our Club Championships. Actually there was very limited *****ing on the running of the CCs which is unusual. Nevertheless, Olympic View Golf Club now has a policy for transgendered members and competitions. It was adopted from the Golf Canada policy and we thank them for their efforts.

                            I did note that there were differing opinions on the issue on this site. I agree to disagree with all. Most of our members have no issue with the member. I have played with her. Very pleasant. I can't imagine the turmoil of going through the procedure. For the record, I spent 12 years as a paratroop commando and 26 years as a policeman. My 4 years in charge of the vice section led me to realize everybody's different.

                            Anyway, my wife is proud of me.

                            That's all from Lotus Land on Vancouver Island.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              You and your club are to be commended.

                              Originally posted by sikoram View Post
                              Well our transgendered member did not enter our Club Championships. Actually there was very limited *****ing on the running of the CCs which is unusual. Nevertheless, Olympic View Golf Club now has a policy for transgendered members and competitions. It was adopted from the Golf Canada policy and we thank them for their efforts.

                              I did note that there were differing opinions on the issue on this site. I agree to disagree with all. Most of our members have no issue with the member. I have played with her. Very pleasant. I can't imagine the turmoil of going through the procedure. For the record, I spent 12 years as a paratroop commando and 26 years as a policeman. My 4 years in charge of the vice section led me to realize everybody's different.

                              Anyway, my wife is proud of me.

                              That's all from Lotus Land on Vancouver Island.
                              This isn't a dress rehearsal. Enjoy yourself. There's no do-over.

                              Comment


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