Transgendered and the modern era in golf

[sikoram]

I haven't got that far. I'm not sure I want to. We will provide that person with the Golf Canada guidelines and as one of our committee suggested, let them decide where they fit within the guidelines. We will rely on the integrity of the person until proven wrong.

[QuentinJJ]

Without the risk of sounding ignorant but you say she is transitioning, does that mean the process isn't complete to be accepted as a lady yet, saying she hasn't completed the transition yet, hope this doesn't sound rude, just wondering at what point is the transition is complete..

My view is that each individual determines its gender identity and gender expression. It isn't up to anyone else to determine this, nor is there any threshold of surgeries or medications to be surpassed. Therefore, if the member identifies and lives as a female, she should be able to enter the Club Championship as a woman, notwithstanding her gender identity at birth or previous expression.

"Trans people should be recognized and treated as the gender they live in, whether or not they have undergone surgery, or their identity documents are up to date."

[Weirfan]

I haven't got that far. I'm not sure I want to. We will provide that person with the Golf Canada guidelines and as one of our committee suggested, let them decide where they fit within the guidelines. We will rely on the integrity of the person until proven wrong.

This a good decision, hopefully things go well.

[bl8d]

My view is that each individual determines its gender identity and gender expression. It isn't up to anyone else to determine this, nor is there any threshold of surgeries or medications to be surpassed. Therefore, if the member identifies and lives as a female, she should be able to enter the Club Championship as a woman, notwithstanding her gender identity at birth or previous expression.

"Trans people should be recognized and treated as the gender they live in, whether or not they have undergone surgery, or their identity documents are up to date."

I can't agree with your (underlined) premise. It wouldn't be fair to natural born women,whose testosterone level are at the expected norm for women. We have at the moment Casto Semenya, a tansgendered man ,competing in women's track and it has put the field of normal women at a disadvantage.
You can go back to the 1936 Berlin Olympics to see what a mess it made there between two competing women one of whom was later diagnosed as having been more man than woman for all her life.
WE have not yet heard of a transgendering woman wanting to play on the PGA because she/he would be at a great disadvantage

https://transgriot.blogspot.com/2009/08/gender-drama-at-1936-berlin-olympics.html

[hannah]

I can't agree with your (underlined) premise. It wouldn't be fair to natural born women,whose testosterone level are at the expected norm for women. We have at the moment Casto Semenya, a tansgendered man ,competing in women's track and it has put the field of normal women at a disadvantage.
You can go back to the 1936 Berlin Olympics to see what a mess it made there between two competing women one of whom was later diagnosed as having been more man than woman for all her life.
WE have not yet heard of a transgendering woman wanting to play on the PGA because she/he would be at a great disadvantage

https://transgriot.blogspot.com/2009/08/gender-drama-at-1936-berlin-olympics.html

It’s like religion and politics, no matter what someone says it’s never correct, I agree with you as what you are saying is really what I was expressing, I think it would be unfair if the lady did compete in the club c’s and I for one would express that at my club if this was the case , it would put the other ladies at a disadvantage from the get go🙂

[rulie]

Perhaps, but the OP and the club is looking for guidance and has a responsibility to more than one person in running this Championship event.....that is why looking at what other associations have done can provide him with an unbiased, already thought out and established protocol.

i found this which might be helpful, it is a list of many different sports associations and how they deal with the issue.

https://www.transathlete.com/policies-by-organization

Golf Canada policy is outlined and I think that provides the OP with the best guidance he can get and is what I would likely be relying upon if charged with this decision

this is what it says for Golf Canada

Eligibility

1. A Golfer will be eligible to participate in an event, provided that the participant is female or male and:

a) was female or male at birth;

OR

b) is a trans female (Male to Female) Golfer and surgical anatomical changes have been completed, including external genitalia changes and gonadectomy; or

c) is a trans female (Male-to-Female) Golfer treated with testosterone suppression medication for gender reassignment purposes. A trans female may compete in a men's event but may not compete in a women's event until completing one calendar year of testosterone suppression treatment.

d) is a trans male (Female-to-Male) Golfer treated with testosterone administration medication for gender reassignment purposes. A trans male may compete in a men's event, but is not eligible to compete in a women's event.



2. Any transgender Golfer who is not taking hormone treatment related to gender reassignment may participate in sex-separated events in accordance with his or her assigned birth gender. For certainty:

a) A trans male (Female-To-Male) Golfer who is not taking testosterone related to gender reassignment may participate in a women's event.

b) A trans female (Male-To-Female) Golfer who is not taking hormone treatments related to gender reassignment may participate in a men's event.

Here's a link to the Golf Canada policy, which is more than what was pasted above -

https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfcanada/app/uploads/golfcanada/production/2015/03/01114016/Transgender-Persons-Participating-Policy-2019.pdf

[sikoram]

Rulie. I've been waiting for you and I do have that link. I will post it in all locker rooms tomorrow morning and ensure the pro staff are aware. We will go from there. Thanks to all.

[synergy]

Rulie. I've been waiting for you and I do have that link. I will post it in all locker rooms tomorrow morning and ensure the pro staff are aware. We will go from there. Thanks to all.

Be careful about that. Just because that’s Golf Canada’s position, it doesn’t make it right (or wrong). To me, it sounds fair, but I suggest you speak to a Human Rights lawyer first. I’m fairly confident you must allow that Member to play in whichever league they wish (identify with). Requiring them to prove their eligibility may be overstepping.

[MrAdam]

Is it not as simple as “what locker room do they use”

if if they identify as a woman and use the women’s locker room the women’s club championships makes sense.

I may be ignorant to and I apologize for that but if they identify as a woman but use the men’s locker room something doesn’t add up.

*the use of “they” is meant to apply to a wide variety of scenarios, not just this one.

[Ignatius Reilly]

Be careful about that. Just because that’s Golf Canada’s position, it doesn’t make it right (or wrong). To me, it sounds fair, but I suggest you speak to a Human Rights lawyer first. I’m fairly confident you must allow that Member to play in whichever league they wish (identify with). Requiring them to prove their eligibility may be overstepping.

I would have thought Golf Canada would have gone through that before posting their position. Isn't that the sort of thing one pays them their dues for?

[Weirfan]

I would have thought Golf Canada would have gone through that before posting their position. Isn't that the sort of thing one pays them their dues for?

There is zero doubt in my mind that they would not have.
the link I posted above is a website specifically designed as a resource for Trans athletes and others
"transathlete is a resource for students, athletes, coaches, and administrators to find information about trans inclusion in athletics at various levels of play. This site pulls together existing information in one central location, and breaks down information into easy-to-reference areas to help you find what you need. "

there are dozens and dozens of sport associations listed and their policies.
I have to believe that these are carefully thought out policies with legal input.
The policies vary to some degree from no requirement to surgery required.

here is the link again

https://www.transathlete.com/policies-by-organization

[rulie]

There is zero doubt in my mind that they would not have.
the link I posted above is a website specifically designed as a resource for Trans athletes and others
"transathlete is a resource for students, athletes, coaches, and administrators to find information about trans inclusion in athletics at various levels of play. This site pulls together existing information in one central location, and breaks down information into easy-to-reference areas to help you find what you need. "

there are dozens and dozens of sport associations listed and their policies.
I have to believe that these are carefully thought out policies with legal input.
The policies vary to some degree from no requirement to surgery required.

here is the link again
https://www.transathlete.com/policies-by-organization

Given that Golf Canada is part of the Canadian Olympic Committee, I would think that their position was consistent with the Olympic Committee's position and has been vetted several times. While there may be those that disagree with those positions, such disagreement doesn't make the positions wrong.

[johnny canuck]

We've had a man who has become a lady playing in comps out here for ages.

She's an absolute bomber (think the girl in Deuce Bigalow), who routinely bombs it past the men, but plays off the reds.

She competes as a women. There is a lot of discontent from the other ladies, but they have to accept it.

[OKHC]

https://o.canada.com/news/trailblazing-transgender-golfer-from-canada-vies-for-place-in-lpga-tour-at-62

A woman from our club played a tournament match against Ms. Lancaster, and felt it was a little unfair because she still has masculine-looking muscles, and can out-drive most women.

[synergy]

We've had a man who has become a lady playing in comps out here for ages.

She's an absolute bomber (think the girl in Deuce Bigalow), who routinely bombs it past the men, but plays off the reds.

She competes as a women. There is a lot of discontent from the other ladies, but they have to accept it.

You would think someone like that is simply an a-hole. Never mind the transgendered thing, but if they’re knowingly playing with a massive advantage, it’s unsportsmanlike. UnsportsPERSONlike

Can a Club insist they play from a different set of tees based on handicap? Would that take the whole men vs women league out of the equation? I mean once you get to the 150 mark, we’re all equal, yes?