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WTF kind of rule is this?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by bl8d View Post
    Sounds like a rule to allow for sheep. Balls lodged in a sheep's thick coat or rolled onto a pile of sheep pellets. Was the next shot played from were the ball dislodged, or did a player have to go back to the point of impact. Playing it as it lies would be unreasonable.

    Maybe Rulie knows.
    Rule 11 covers a ball in motion accidentally hitting a person, animal or object. ("Animal" is a defined term and includes any member of the animal kingdom (except humans), including mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians and invertebrates (such as worms, insects, spiders and crustaceans)).
    Rule 11 tells us what to do if the ball accidentally strikes a person, animal or object and it depends on where the ball was played from. If it was played from anywhere except the putting green, the ball is to be played as it lies (if it came to rest on any of these, it must be dropped at the point where it first came to rest in or on them). If it was played from the putting green, and it is known or virtually certain that the ball was stopped or deflected, the stroke is cancelled and must be replayed. Imo, it has nothing to do with "knowingly" as is suggested in the posts (maybe an oversimplification of known or virtually certain by our wonderful media?)
    Last edited by rulie; Sep 9, 2019, 07:56 PM.

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    • #17
      Are you guys telling me when I putt if the ball hit something (usually small rock or other small object) i could replay my shot. We play on a course that is not 100% manicure . . . rough green is the norm . . . it is what it is. Ball hitting something is sort of the norm (even if it is maddening) . . . I don't know how much sense this makes. We will be re-putting on a regular basis . . .
      If you think it's hard to meet new people, try picking up the wrong golf ball.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by rulie View Post

        Rule 11 covers a ball in motion accidentally hitting a person, animal or object. ("Animal" is a defined term and includes any member of the animal kingdom (except humans), including mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians and invertebrates (such as worms, insects, spiders and crustaceans)).
        Rule 11 tells us what to do if the ball accidentally strikes a person, animal or object and it depends on where the ball was played from. If it was played from anywhere except the putting green, the ball is to be played as it lies (if it came to rest on any of these, it must be dropped at the point where it first came to rest in or on them). If it was played from the putting green, and it is known or virtually certain that the ball was stopped or deflected, the stroke is cancelled and must be replayed. Imo, it has nothing to do with "knowingly" as is suggested in the posts (maybe an oversimplification of known or virtually certain by our wonderful media?)
        It has everything to do with "knowingly", unless you think the Referees involved, the ET and Paul Casey are all wrong.

        TLDR? It was not "known", much less "virtually certain". At least it wasn't until the video review in the scoring tent. Once "known" by video review, was Casey supposed to go back to the green and try to replace the ball and repeat the putt?
        "Confusion" will be my epitaph
        ...Iggy

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        • #19
          Originally posted by AjaxGolf View Post
          So Paul Casey rolls his putt over a bug on the green and is almost penalized for not reputting. He wasn't penalized because he did not "knowingly" hit the bug. The Rules of Golf stipulate that if a ball in motion hits a person, animal or object on the putting green, the stroke must be replayed. In this case the bug was ruled an animal. This one has to be the stupidest ruke in golf I've heard of yet.
          Rather than just making an unsubstantiated statement, it would be helpful if you could explain why this is the stupidest rule in the known universe. Exception 2 of 11.1b is unambiguous, easily applied and what you have to do is clear. The Definition of an animal is simple and clear. If you don't know your ball has been deflected by an animal whether the size of a bug or or an elephant, then obviously you can't be penalised for not following the procedure for your ball hitting an animal. In effect, if you don't know something happened, then it didn't happen. Also simple and clear.

          If you see this as "stupid", how else would you have it?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ColinL View Post
            Rather than just making an unsubstantiated statement, it would be helpful if you could explain why this is the stupidest rule in the known universe. Exception 2 of 11.1b is unambiguous, easily applied and what you have to do is clear. The Definition of an animal is simple and clear. If you don't know your ball has been deflected by an animal whether the size of a bug or or an elephant, then obviously you can't bepenalised for not following the procedure for your ball hitting an animal. In effect, if you don't know something happened, then it didn't happen. Also simple and clear.
            If you see this as "stupid", how else would you have it?

            Just the fact alone that there is a rule called "Exception 2 of 11.1b"pretty well explains how stupid some rules of golf are.

            Just the other day I was playing golf and I swear that by ball was deflected away from the hole by a "H1N1" flu virus, but my playing partner disagreed with me.

            So I ask would this be covered by "Exception 2 of 11.1b" or would it be "Exception 2 of 11.1c or maybe "Exception 2 of 11.1d., etc, etc.

            Where do we draw the line as far the size of the creature involved.

            Fortunately I have had by H1N1 early so no worries there.

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            • #21
              Object? What is the definition of that? Virtually anything?

              Case in point. I was playing a match and had a three foot putt to win the hole. I stroked the putt, a leaf blown by the wind struck the ball in motion and knocked it off line ....both my opponent and I agreed that the putt would have been holed but for the leaf intervention. Under this rule should the stroke have been replayed? Not knowing this rule we allowed that it was a "rub of the green" situation and played on, halving the hole.

              Is a leaf an object under this rule?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Rusty View Post
                Object? What is the definition of that? Virtually anything?

                Case in point. I was playing a match and had a three foot putt to win the hole. I stroked the putt, a leaf blown by the wind struck the ball in motion and knocked it off line ....both my opponent and I agreed that the putt would have been holed but for the leaf intervention. Under this rule should the stroke have been replayed? Not knowing this rule we allowed that it was a "rub of the green" situation and played on, halving the hole.

                Is a leaf an object under this rule?
                You should have re-played the stroke, without penalty. I didn't know the rule but do now!

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                • #23
                  is ball marker counted as an object? if i putt and roll over somebodies ball marker do I re do the stroke?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Richd View Post
                    is ball marker counted as an object? if i putt and roll over somebodies ball marker do I re do the stroke?
                    Ball marker is equipment.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Just read the Rule below, and also check the definitions:

                      This Rule applies any time a ball in play is in motion (whether after a stroke or otherwise), except when a ball has been dropped in a relief area and has not yet come to rest. That situation is covered by Rule 14.3. 11.1 Ball in Motion Accidentally Hits Person or Outside Influence

                      a. No Penalty to Any Player

                      If a player’s ball in motion accidentally hits any person or outside influence:
                      • There is no penalty to any player.
                      • This is true even if the ball hits the player, the opponent or any other player or any of their caddies or equipment.

                      Exception – Ball Played on Putting Green in Stroke Play: If the player’s ball in motion hits another ball at rest on the putting green and both balls were on the putting green before the stroke, the player gets the general penalty (two penalty strokes). b. Ball Must Be Played as It Lies

                      If a player’s ball in motion accidentally hits any person or outside influence, the ball must be played as it lies, except in two situations:

                      Exception 1 – When Ball Played from Anywhere Except Putting Green Comes to Rest on Any Person, Animal or Moving Outside Influence: The player must not play the ball as it lies. Instead, the player must take relief:
                      • When Ball Is Anywhere Except on Putting Green. The player must drop the original ball or another ball in this relief area (see Rule 14.3):
                        • Reference Point: The estimated point right under where the ball first came to rest on the person, animal or moving outside influence.
                        • Size of Relief Area Measured from Reference Point: One club-length, but with these limits:
                        • Limits on Location of Relief Area:
                          • Must be in the same area of the course as the reference point, and
                          • Must not be nearer the hole than the reference point.
                      • When Ball Is on Putting Green. The player must place the original ball or another ball on the estimated spot right under where the ball first came to rest on the person, animal or moving outside influence, using the procedures for replacing a ball under Rules 14.2b(2) and 14.2e.

                      Exception 2 – When Ball Played from Putting Green Accidentally Hits Any Person, Animal or Movable Obstruction (Including Another Ball in Motion) on Putting Green: The stroke does not count and the original ball or another ball must be replaced on its original spot (which if not known must be estimated) (see Rule 14.2), except in these two cases:
                      • Ball in Motion Hits Another Ball at Rest or Ball-Marker on Putting Green. The stroke counts and the ball must be played as it lies. (See Rule 11.1a for whether a penalty applies in stroke play).
                      • Ball in Motion Accidentally Hits Flagstick or Person Attending Flagstick. This is covered by Rule 13.2b(2), not by this Rule.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ColinL View Post

                        Rather than just making an unsubstantiated statement, it would be helpful if you could explain why this is the stupidest rule in the known universe. Exception 2 of 11.1b is unambiguous, easily applied and what you have to do is clear. The Definition of an animal is simple and clear. If you don't know your ball has been deflected by an animal whether the size of a bug or or an elephant, then obviously you can't be penalised for not following the procedure for your ball hitting an animal. In effect, if you don't know something happened, then it didn't happen. Also simple and clear.

                        If you see this as "stupid", how else would you have it?
                        So now I have to explain what an "opinion" is?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Rusty View Post
                          Object? What is the definition of that? Virtually anything?

                          Case in point. I was playing a match and had a three foot putt to win the hole. I stroked the putt, a leaf blown by the wind struck the ball in motion and knocked it off line ....both my opponent and I agreed that the putt would have been holed but for the leaf intervention. Under this rule should the stroke have been replayed? Not knowing this rule we allowed that it was a "rub of the green" situation and played on, halving the hole.

                          Is a leaf an object under this rule?
                          You were correct in playing on. Exception 2 tells us a stroke from the putting green doesn't count and the ball has to be replaced and played again if it hits any one of only three things - a person, an animal or a movable obstruction. A leaf is none of these things whether blowing in the wind or motionless and so the Exception doesn't apply. A poly bag, being artificial, is a movable obstruction and hitting one would result in the stroke having to be cancelled and replayed.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ColinL View Post
                            A leaf is none of these things whether blowing in the wind or motionless and so the Exception doesn't apply.
                            Is this a new change? A leaf blowing in the wind cost this player a penalty in 2017:

                            https://www.golfdigest.com/story/you...-pga-tour-card

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by smc66 View Post

                              Is this a new change? A leaf blowing in the wind cost this player a penalty in 2017:

                              https://www.golfdigest.com/story/you...-pga-tour-card
                              Yes. The old rule applied to an outside agency which would have included a leaf
                              Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
                              - Chi Chi Rodriguez

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by hebbsy View Post
                                Couldn't be a more stupid rule. What's there to prevent some idiot. From stating his ball hit a bug, on an important missed putt? I mean surely one could argue that he does not see a bug on the line of the opposing player, but he could also argue that it had already flown away, after it had been hit. Unless it's the PGA.. There are no cameras it actually record.. Especially. In slow. Motion if there was a bug. I Can see this rule being manipulated in the future
                                Any player can lie or cheat at any time ....i don't see your point.
                                "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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