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You can not convince me of the stupidity of rules after reading this story.....

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  • #16
    Realistically are there other options?

    If a one or two stroke penalty is assessed, would that be sufficient deterrent or punishment for someone who deliberately tries to cheat? And what about those players down the line who lose out to a cheater?

    If one attempts to make a distinction between someone who deliberately cheated vs someone having made an honest mistake, to exempt an incorrect score card from a DQ, there would be no end to second guessing the assessment.

    Should a strokes penalty be applied instead of a DQ if the error is self reported?

    What if there was a time limit to making changes to one's card?

    Like it or not, there does not appear to be practical alternatives - it's a pretty cut and dry affair and that's probably not a bad thing.

    Contrast this to calling penalties in cycling for example in the case of two riders who tangle in a sprint to the line. There is no expectation or tradition of self declaration here, its dog eat dog.

    Depending on the circumstances, either or both riders could be DQ'd, or an offending rider could be striped of the race or stage win, given a short time penalty, or relegated to the last spot of the peloton. But it is all based on the evaluation and judgement of race officials. Really messy and controversial stuff.


    Fortunately there are no rules limiting the number of golf balls you can carry during a match!

    Comment


    • #17
      It is a poor lesson for anyone, but especially young people, to even suggest that their own mistakes should not come with consequences.

      Imagine the reaction if a young hockey player said "Well, I never intended to be off-side on the play where I thought that I scored the game-winning goal, so that goal should count.".
      This situation is no different. The game has rules. This young woman broke one of the rules and suffered the prescribed consequences.

      Would those decrying the rules take the same attitude if her mistake allowed her to win the tournament? I suspect they would NOT, but I also suspect that none of them could reconcile why they would have a different opinion under those circumstances.
      Sage of the GTA...

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by xrox View Post

        Fully agree with this. Most people do I find. Golf is so stupid sometimes.
        Fair enough, but a game without rules is nothing more than practice...
        Sage of the GTA...

        Comment


        • #19
          I always look forward to an AP Match (Anthony & Peter)
          Every great idea starts out as a blasphemy

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Fore Warned View Post
            Realistically are there other options?

            If a one or two stroke penalty is assessed, would that be sufficient deterrent or punishment for someone who deliberately tries to cheat? And what about those players down the line who lose out to a cheater?

            If one attempts to make a distinction between someone who deliberately cheated vs someone having made an honest mistake, to exempt an incorrect score card from a DQ, there would be no end to second guessing the assessment.

            Should a strokes penalty be applied instead of a DQ if the error is self reported?

            What if there was a time limit to making changes to one's card?

            Like it or not, there does not appear to be practical alternatives - it's a pretty cut and dry affair and that's probably not a bad thing.

            Contrast this to calling penalties in cycling for example in the case of two riders who tangle in a sprint to the line. There is no expectation or tradition of self declaration here, its dog eat dog.

            Depending on the circumstances, either or both riders could be DQ'd, or an offending rider could be striped of the race or stage win, given a short time penalty, or relegated to the last spot of the peloton. But it is all based on the evaluation and judgement of race officials. Really messy and controversial stuff.
            could the penalty lighter , sure, but it isn't right now. As such the penalty is what it is and seems the majority agree it was just , and that includes the young woman who committed the breach.

            Not everything in life is fair but rules are the rules, as Benz so appropriately states, without rules it is just practice.
            "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

            Comment


            • #21
              Fudging a scorecard is the easiest way to cheat. We had a guy do it at my old club, copped a 6 month ban.

              Ensuring it is correct is 100% the player's responsibility.

              It's a mistake that she'll make once.

              It's harsh, but in a sport that relies on integrity, rules like this need to be in place.

              Comment


              • #22
                There's a certain irony in a system based on a player's integrity ending up DQ'ing a young woman because she had..... integrity.

                At no point was she cheating. Others may have been and not been caught due to their lack of integrity.

                It seems there might be an opportunity to revisit how the rule operates when there's a voluntary self-reporting.

                And don't tell me this is how the rules work now, I know that. But we just had a major overhaul of the rules and we're bound to have the regular ongoing ones in the future. So there's an opportunity.
                "Confusion" will be my epitaph
                ...Iggy

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by golfingtime View Post

                  Blah blah blah blah blah...... A rule is a rule..... I get it & we can agree to disagree that I think it is GARBAGE!!!!!!!!
                  A rule is indeed a rule and being required to return an accurate record of your score is the one which caught this player out (and, over time, probably many others). If you have reasons why there should not be such a rule or why there should not be a penalty for returning a score lower than you actually took, a mistake which if not noticed could potentially result in a player wrongly winning a tournament, let's have them. There is a principle running through the rules of golf that penalties for accidental/unintended breaches are generally there to take account of potential advantage. Why would this one differ?

                  Loud assertions don't convince.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    It was her partner who marked the card incorrectly and she missed it. Golf seems too much behind the times. Easy to keep score with a mobile app where you input your score every hole and your partner confirms it and then it is electonically posted. Add to that there are other people there to add up the card and they too could have seen the error.

                    If not electronic, then how about the player, their opponent/partner and a third person all add up the scorecards at the end of the round and all sign off on it. Geez, how hard is that?

                    Had this on carts in Tournaments I played and could follow all the teams as we played.

                    Otherwise have a marshal/official follow every grouping and tally the score every hole & ensure agreement..

                    Simple and easily done.

                    Golf is too much like shinny hockey or pick-up basketball where it is on you or your playing partner to call fouls ob offside......

                    Also as said the error was discovered and reported prior to the results being official. No harm no foul imo.

                    This is 2019 not 1865.
                    Last edited by golfingtime; Oct 9, 2019, 08:17 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by golfingtime View Post
                      .

                      how about the player, their opponent/partner and a third person all add up the scorecards at the end of the round and all sign off on it. Geez, how hard is that?
                      That's an option that was available to her. She chose not to use it
                      Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
                      - Chi Chi Rodriguez

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by aaagc View Post
                        That's an option that was available to her. She chose not to use it
                        which was her downfall....all players know to do this
                        "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by golfingtime View Post
                          It was her partner who marked the card incorrectly and she missed it. Golf seems too much behind the times. Easy to keep score with a mobile app where you input your score every hole and your partner confirms it and then it is electonically posted. Add to that there are other people there to add up the card and they too could have seen the error.

                          If not electronic, then how about the player, their opponent/partner and a third person all add up the scorecards at the end of the round and all sign off on it. Geez, how hard is that?
                          If the partner recorded an incorrect score using an electronic device and the player later confirmed it, they would have exactly the same situation.
                          The medium is irrelevant.
                          Sage of the GTA...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by golfingtime View Post
                            If not electronic, then how about the player, their opponent/partner and a third person all add up the scorecards at the end of the round and all sign off on it. Geez, how hard is that?
                            The players are not required to 'add up' anything. They are only required to record/confirm the score for each hole.
                            Sage of the GTA...

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              This is the 21st century..... Lot's of options and no way it should happen. But yes I understand rulies are never wrong and options to ensure it doesn't happen don't exist......

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by golfingtime View Post
                                This is the 21st century..... Lot's of options and no way it should happen. But yes I understand rulies are never wrong and options to ensure it doesn't happen don't exist......
                                Please remind us of the options that would prevent it happening and which of those were available to her.
                                Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
                                - Chi Chi Rodriguez

                                Comment


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