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Golf ball hanging over the lip of the hole....how long is enough and/or penalty?

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  • Golf ball hanging over the lip of the hole....how long is enough and/or penalty?

    I thought they fixed this rule to be more reasonable. In this case the ball "hung over" for 25 seconds. I think that's way way too long and yet they let it count.

    Why not just simplify the rule. 10 sec wait from stoppage PERIOD. No penalty for it falling in after 10 sec, just replace the ball as it laid and play it as it was.

    https://golf.com/news/pro-convinces-...wait-putt-out/

  • #2
    AFIK, the key element in all of these 'hanging ball' situations is whether the ball actually 'came to rest'.

    I've heard players argue that the ball was 'wobbling' ever so slightly, therefore to tap it in would be to touch a ball in motion which is a breach of the rules. The fact that the ball eventually drops supports these arguments despite the fact that the ball appears to have stopped.

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    • #3
      The issue was the length of time he took to get to the ball on the edge. the 10 second count down only starts when he is in a position to make another stroke.
      Without seeing what he was doing between the ball reaching the hole and his reaching the hole, it is impossible for us to make a judgement.
      The referee however seems to be satisfied that it was not an unreasonable time - whatever he was doing.
      Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
      - Chi Chi Rodriguez

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      • #4
        I believe that Lou Loomis is the acknowledged expert on this rule.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0Hx5ka1FiA

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        • #5
          A simple time clock would make this rule much easier to interpret and a penalty for waiting too long is a farce.

          The birdie should not have counted IMO when there are other cases where the ball fell earlier than this.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TeetoGrnr View Post
            A simple time clock would make this rule much easier to interpret and a penalty for waiting too long is a farce.
            How would that be implemented fairly for a full-field event unless every putt was recorded on video?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TeetoGrnr View Post
              A simple time clock would make this rule much easier to interpret and a penalty for waiting too long is a farce.

              The birdie should not have counted IMO when there are other cases where the ball fell earlier than this.
              It's not difficult for a player to arrive at the hole and count up to ten seconds in his head.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TeetoGrnr View Post
                A simple time clock would make this rule much easier to interpret and a penalty for waiting too long is a farce.

                The birdie should not have counted IMO when there are other cases where the ball fell earlier than this.
                I don't know how it would work . . . from the time the ball stop . . . from the time the player gets in position close to the ball . . . time clock restart if the ball move . . . I don't see any problems with this shot. He puts, wait to see, starts slowly to walk toward the ball and it falls in . . .
                If you think it's hard to meet new people, try picking up the wrong golf ball.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ColinL View Post

                  It's not difficult for a player to arrive at the hole and count up to ten seconds in his head.
                  It isn't the 10 second that is the issue in this case. Its the time taken to get to the hole. And that isn't fixed - nor can it be.
                  Putting isn't golf, greens should be treated almost the same as water hazards: you land on them, then add two strokes to your score.
                  - Chi Chi Rodriguez

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ColinL View Post

                    It's not difficult for a player to arrive at the hole and count up to ten seconds in his head.
                    No, but it's hard to adjudicate the correct speed of that counting.

                    A player may be counting a-1-ah-and-ah-2-ah-end-er-um-ah-and-ah-3.... while his competitor has already reached 10.

                    Given the additional variability of deciding when the player actually "arrived" at the hole - never mind whether he lingered en route - makes this one hard to deal with fairly and objectively. Add to that whether or not (and when) the ball truly came to rest.....



                    "Confusion" will be my epitaph
                    ...Iggy

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ignatius Reilly View Post

                      No, but it's hard to adjudicate the correct speed of that counting.

                      A player may be counting a-1-ah-and-ah-2-ah-end-er-um-ah-and-ah-3.... while his competitor has already reached 10.

                      Given the additional variability of deciding when the player actually "arrived" at the hole - never mind whether he lingered en route - makes this one hard to deal with fairly and objectively. Add to that whether or not (and when) the ball truly came to rest.....


                      So maybe we gotta teach players how to count. 1 Mississippi 2 Mississippi 3 Mississippi... I still think this is the clearest most fair rule. Within 1 count of your ten....is where the judgement comes. We have timers now for lost ball searches.

                      The way it is now, it's not fair. If you're hitting a 6 footer, you take 3 paces so you get maybe 3 secs, if you're putting a 60 footer, you take 20 paces so you get 15 secs? But wait, the other guy moved so I can say I thought he was coming in so I stopped walking...so I get 5 more seconds for my ball to fall.

                      5 seconds might be better. Less variation in count speed.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ignatius Reilly View Post
                        Given the additional variability of deciding when the player actually "arrived" at the hole - never mind whether he lingered en route - makes this one hard to deal with fairly and objectively. Add to that whether or not (and when) the ball truly came to rest.....
                        Why is it important "whether or not (and when) the ball truly came to rest..?" When the player gets to the hole if the ball does not fall in, in 10 seconds, its deemed AT REST, regardless of whether it's moving or not. If it falls in after 10 seconds, add a penalty stroke.

                        Last edited by Shadow; Sep 8, 2020, 02:42 PM.

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                        • #13
                          I am reminded of an R&A Rules Seminar (TARS) that I attended in St Andrews a few year back. On this particular topic we were shown a video of a player who missed a longish putt by millimetres and the did the dance of anguish, falling to his knees, painfully making his way to the hole before starting his ten count. His count was accurate. Most of us in the room felt that the player had taken too long to reach the hole, in fact too long to even start the walk. However, the R&A position was that a player was allowed some time for a little emotional histrionics (my term) in such circumstances.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JGT4 View Post
                            I am reminded of an R&A Rules Seminar (TARS) that I attended in St Andrews a few year back. On this particular topic we were shown a video of a player who missed a longish putt by millimetres and the did the dance of anguish, falling to his knees, painfully making his way to the hole before starting his ten count. His count was accurate. Most of us in the room felt that the player had taken too long to reach the hole, in fact too long to even start the walk. However, the R&A position was that a player was allowed some time for a little emotional histrionics (my term) in such circumstances.
                            To me it's too subjective what is acceptable and what isn't which is why I feel the rule needs "fixing"/clarifying to be fair. It shouldn't matter if it's a 3 foot putt or a 100 ft putt.

                            The fact that most ppl in your rules seminar have different opinions is evidence that the rule needs to be clear. This wasn't the first time this has happened. What if this were a US Open Playoff situation and it was a hanging putt from 5 ft and it dropped after a count of 5 seconds and the ruling is "no go" and we've seen putts count after a count of 10 seconds - imagine the controversy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TeetoGrnr View Post
                              To me it's too subjective what is acceptable and what isn't which is why I feel the rule needs "fixing"/clarifying to be fair. It shouldn't matter if it's a 3 foot putt or a 100 ft putt.
                              Fair enough, but when would the countdown begin?

                              Is it fair to allow the same amount of time for a 3-foot putt as for a 100-foot putt?

                              Would only putts (i.e. shots taken from the putting surface) be subject to this rule?
                              What about a chip or a pitch which 'hung on the lip'? If not, why not?

                              Comment

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