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PLAYING FROM THE PROPER TEES - A 'FORMULA'

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Weirfan View Post

    Great to hear AD.

    Yesterday I played the golds ( 7100). The only forced carry ( well 9th has one as well but not the same) was the first hole playing 400 into the teeth of a 2-3 club wind. To carry the creek varied from 180 to 230 left to right with a tree left and OB and trees and hazard right. It was a very intimidating shot for me with my usual power fade. Thankfully, Larry Cheung sent me a drill to work on the other day and I rehearsed this while waiting to tee off. I hit perhaps the most solid drive of the day straight down the left side leaving 157 to the pin and proceeded to stripe a knock down 6i to 15 feet pin high. That set the tone for a confident ball striking round.
    Congrats Those are shots that I can only dream of.

    My son played SAV this weekend. Said that it was a bear with the wind blowing.

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    • #47
      My 2 better rounds of the year were from the blacks at Osprey. Usually play the blues and the odd time from whites. I was left with some long 170-200 shots on par 3s and 4s.

      Knowing this my strategy would change where I was fine with playing to front of green then getting up and down for par. This took out some of the funky lies to the sides of the green. Also some of the tee boxes just suited my eye better than where the whites and blues were usually positioned.

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      • #48
        6200 yards is right around my sweet spot. I'm an 8 handicap and drive the ball around 240-250. I don't want to have anything more than a 6 iron to a par 4 green.

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        • #49
          There is no hard fast rule. Though from my experience with friends and others the 5iron x 36 seems to be the most accurate. They key is can you hit a 5 iron (haha) some struggle with it but can hit a 6. In which case take your 6iron distance and multiply by 36.

          now i can hit my 5i 190-200 which puts me between 6800-7200. Id say this accurate if my driver is working. My home course is national pines. For those of you that jave played it our blues are 6150 and golds are 6650. Blacks are 7100+.

          I cannot handle the blacks as a 9-11hcp (i hover around there)

          Yet i play better from the golds then the blues even though the blues are 600y less.

          Yet ive played wyndance from 7000+ yards and been fine. Diamondback feels short at 6600 yards in comparison. Part of it also has to do with where the trouble is off the tee etc.

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          • #50
            My 5 iron is 26 degrees. Some 5 irons out there are 21 degrees. Not sure why this should be used as the base x 36 when their is no base loft to begin with. No one has the right answer to which tees we should play that will accommodate everyone in the foursome. I have never seen a group of four play off of four different tee decks, and I hope I never do. I know that is not an answer to which tee decks we should play, however with out changing our playing partners based on their ability or distance so as to play from the “correct” tees, golf must move on. Pick up your ball at double or triple bogey as minimum to be courteous to others. If this is too much trouble, practice to lower your strokes and let’s move on.

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            • #51
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              • #52
                I get playing a tee deck based on some math by 5i length or whatever.
                Or whatever hole makeup one feels comfortable with ( ie. not many Par 4's over 400 yards, or 350 yards depending on your length, etc )

                But I don't get a tee deck recommendation based on one's score, per the pic above.
                Score is not related to how long one hits a ball. Plenty of 280 yard Drivers shooting 90+ from the Blues / Blacks as there are 200 yard Drivers from the Whites / Reds. Also is one a good / bad / average putter or wedge player ? Golf is 2 games -> ball in the air, and ball on the ground.
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                • #53
                  Originally posted by ARL67 View Post
                  I get playing a tee deck based on some math by 5i length or whatever.
                  Or whatever hole makeup one feels comfortable with ( ie. not many Par 4's over 400 yards, or 350 yards depending on your length, etc )

                  But I don't get a tee deck recommendation based on one's score, per the pic above.
                  Score is not related to how long one hits a ball. Plenty of 280 yard Drivers shooting 90+ from the Blues / Blacks as there are 200 yard Drivers from the Whites / Reds. Also is one a good / bad / average putter or wedge player ? Golf is 2 games -> ball in the air, and ball on the ground.
                  maybe the though process is that based on your score ability you will be able to navigate around the course i a timely fashion no matter what the length is.

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                  • #54
                    IMO, the bottom line is maintaining an acceptable pace of play regardless of the tee deck is being used by a given player.

                    I think we have all seen a single-digit handicapper who constantly plays at a glacial pace, probably because the extended pre-shot routine and the over-analysis of putts from every angle is perceived as being the reason for the good scores. Conversely, we have also seen the 36-handicapper who keeps up by not looking for balls that will never be found and by picking up after the 7th or 8th is still not in the hole.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Benz View Post
                      IMO, the bottom line is maintaining an acceptable pace of play regardless of the tee deck is being used by a given player.

                      I think we have all seen a single-digit handicapper who constantly plays at a glacial pace, probably because the extended pre-shot routine and the over-analysis of putts from every angle is perceived as being the reason for the good scores. Conversely, we have also seen the 36-handicapper who keeps up by not looking for balls that will never be found and by picking up after the 7th or 8th is still not in the hole.
                      Maybe a stopwatch on the actual time a low cap player is watching a high capper play vs how long they are playing would change your mind. Everyone has the right to read their putt correctly. 15 seconds is an eternity in time to walk around a putt from the low to high side. On the contrary, everyone in the group stopping two, three, four, five, or six times before they get to the longest ball off the tee is actually a much longer time and a bigger problem, but the majority of groups consist of friends who want to play together. Further, regardless of which tee, when a player sprays a ball, then tops, then duffs, then sculls, then pulls, etc etc, the low capper is watching all of this (or they wouldn’t be low cappers) until the group can move up to get to their own ball, and at that time you believe they should speed up for the time lost moving up the hole from all the extra strokes of other players moving up the hole? ( which by the way is why courses like royal woodbine are so slow, very narrow fairways with a lot of water on every hole to catch errant shots)

                      This is why I believe we may never solve for x.
                      Last edited by BUCCI Putters; Oct 29, 2021, 06:56 PM.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by BUCCI Putters View Post

                        Maybe a stopwatch on the actual time a low cap player is watching a high capper play vs how long they are playing would change your mind. Everyone has the right to read their putt correctly. 15 seconds is an eternity in time to walk around a putt from the low to high side. On the contrary, everyone in the group stopping two, three, four, five, or six times before they get to the longest ball off the tee is actually a much longer time and a bigger problem, but the majority of groups consist of friends who want to play together. Further, regardless of which tee, when a player sprays a ball, then tops, then duffs, then sculls, then pulls, etc etc, the low capper is watching all of this (or they wouldn’t be low cappers) until the group can move up to get to their own ball, and at that time you believe they should speed up for the time lost moving up the hole from all the extra strokes of other players moving up the hole? ( which by the way is why courses like royal woodbine are so slow, very narrow fairways with a lot of water on every hole to catch errant shots)

                        This is why I believe we may never solve for x.
                        As I said, the bottom line is the pace of play regardless of how it's achieved. Given this, if a player plays the 'wrong' tees (according to the formula) but can still keep up, then isn't that more important?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Benz View Post

                          As I said, the bottom line is the pace of play regardless of how it's achieved. Given this, if a player plays the 'wrong' tees (according to the formula) but can still keep up, then isn't that more important?
                          What are the correct tees? A group of four players may play off four different tee decks if certain formulas are used. That is not ideal in recreational golf as groups usually consist of players who want to play together. Your next response may be to play off the tee of the highest handicap player or shortest hitter, which may be ideal in most cases, but not a guarantee for faster play. 120 strokes will always take more time that 72. Keep in mind, that moving up a hole burning strokes is triple the time of putting strokes. A 120 player and a 72 player may have 25 to 36 putts. Which brings the tee to green strokes that take considerably more time in the range of 84 to 95 swings for the high capper vs 36 to 47 for the low capper. That is more than double the amount of full strokes which is triple to quadruple the amount of time when considering the group must move to get to the next stroke whereas on the green, the group does not have to.
                          Last edited by BUCCI Putters; Oct 29, 2021, 07:22 PM.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by BUCCI Putters View Post

                            What are the correct tees? A group of four players may play off four different tee decks if certain formulas are used. That is not ideal in recreational golf as groups usually consist of players who want to play together. Your next response may be to play off the tee of the highest handicap player or shortest hitter, which may be ideal in most cases, but not a guarantee for faster play. 120 strokes will always take more time that 72. Keep in mind, that moving up a hole burning strokes is triple the time of putting strokes. A 120 player and a 72 player may have 25 to 36 putts. Which brings the tee to green strokes that take considerably more time in the range of 84 to 95 swings for the high capper vs 36 to 47 for the low capper. That is more than double the amount of full strokes which is triple to quadruple the amount of time when considering the group must move to get to the next stroke whereas on the green, the group does not have to.
                            It's been my experience that many high-handicap players often pick up before a hole is completed, especially when playing with better players. Further, it has also been my experience that some low-handicap players can take an inordinate amount of time per stroke despite taking fewer of them. In short, all strokes are not created equal.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Benz View Post

                              It's been my experience that many high-handicap players often pick up before a hole is completed, especially when playing with better players. Further, it has also been my experience that some low-handicap players can take an inordinate amount of time per stroke despite taking fewer of them. In short, all strokes are not created equal.
                              Yep... the high handicap player who takes no practice swing, walks up to the ball and takes a hack and skulls it 100 yards can do this faster 2-3 times per hole to get to the green than the time it takes the low handicap player to visualize the hole, use their rangefinder, bounce back and forth between clubs, visualize the hole again, take a few practice swings, address the ball in a deliberate manner (left foot, right foot, club parallel to the ground at waist height in front of them to check grip), look at the hole..... one of the best players at our club has a hard time finding playing partners because his pace is repugnant... some of my fastest rounds of golf have been with some of the worst players I have encountered, and some of my longest rounds of golf have been with some of the best players I have encountered... the only thing worse than a low handicap player who treats a recreational round like the final day of a tournament, is a high handicap player who has the same routine as the low handicap player outlined above.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Benz View Post

                                It's been my experience that many high-handicap players often pick up before a hole is completed, especially when playing with better players. Further, it has also been my experience that some low-handicap players can take an inordinate amount of time per stroke despite taking fewer of them. In short, all strokes are not created equal.
                                Agree, in my experience there is no positive correlation between poor ability and slower play. Some of the slowest golfers encountered as a player and marshal are the lower handicappers. Now of course, two golfers with the same routine and pace and one takes 75, the other 105 strokes will differ, but as long as they are all keeping pace with the group ahead, that is all that matters. I laugh at the guys who rush, rush only to stand and wait....trying to play at a 3 hour pace on a full course that is moving at a 4 hour pace.

                                everybody walks at a different pace and everyone has a different routine, and if it is the same routine will have a different speed to go through it. I have yet to encounter a player that walks faster than me and in a cart I can do my course 45 to an hour faster than I can walk. I do like to take my time over a tough chip/pitch and when on the greens I will walk the line and read the putt from both sides.

                                what happens and how it is done between the first tee and the 18th green is of zero consequence, 250 golfers will have 250 different routines and walking speeds.

                                What does matter is the cumulative time taken between those two points and that it comes in at or under the expected pop time par for the particular course. ( not the expectation of you, me or anyone else)
                                "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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