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  • #16
    Never played with a high handicapper/beginner golfer who was fast. Always a problem getting to the green, around the green, lost balls, etc. no matter how fast they think they are. Hard pill to swallow. Everyone started somewhere in this game. I get it. Don’t turn around and blame better golfers because they read greens. If a horribly slow scratch player stood behind the ball for (exaggeration) 1 minute straight, (driving everyone in the group nuts) they still spent less time than the high handicapper did on that same hole. That is fact. I just wish more teaching/practicing would happen at the driving range.

    Mentally, my goal next year is to adapt to the slow play, and try to be more understanding of all the reasons for it. Most golfers, if not all of them, do not try to create slow play on purpose.

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    • #17
      I was at Braeben this year, where a scenario played out that is all too familiar.

      Hole #6 , short 470 yards.

      I played a 2 iron off the tee (avoid the trap on the left) then hybrid to pin high (of which I waited for the green to clear)

      My three playing partners hit drivers off the tee. Two lost balls, hack outs, long shots in and all of them short of the green, in the fescue again etc etc etc. they were all longer than me off the tee, but took from 6 to 7 strokes to get near the green each. So far three players 18 to 20 strokes, me 2.

      Anyway, once we have all our carts at the greenside, they proceed to chip and pitch onto the green. I’m standing to the side of the green so they can play onto it, in the fairway, I can see two guys hands on the hips already. Once on the green, my second shot is still closer they their chips/pitches, I mark my ball and they putt. Now it’s my turn, I have a 6 footer for eagle, I glance to the right, and I see four guys now waiting to hit into the green with hands in the air. I’m the last guy to make a stroke on the whole and rush the process worried about what the group behind thinks.

      I missed. Not only that, I three putt as I backhanded the two footer coming back.

      Moral of the story, don’t be so quick to judge who is to blame for slow play. I should have taken 3-5 seconds for that putt, but the guys behind would have probably hit into to me at that point, my group, well, they were done and now waiting for the slow player to finish putting already.(yes me, the guy who actually played the hole five times faster).

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by BUCCI Putters View Post
        I was at Braeben this year, where a scenario played out that is all too familiar.

        Hole #6 , short 470 yards.

        I played a 2 iron off the tee (avoid the trap on the left) then hybrid to pin high (of which I waited for the green to clear)

        My three playing partners hit drivers off the tee. Two lost balls, hack outs, long shots in and all of them short of the green, in the fescue again etc etc etc. they were all longer than me off the tee, but took from 6 to 7 strokes to get near the green each. So far three players 18 to 20 strokes, me 2.

        Anyway, once we have all our carts at the greenside, they proceed to chip and pitch onto the green. I’m standing to the side of the green so they can play onto it, in the fairway, I can see two guys hands on the hips already. Once on the green, my second shot is still closer they their chips/pitches, I mark my ball and they putt. Now it’s my turn, I have a 6 footer for eagle, I glance to the right, and I see four guys now waiting to hit into the green with hands in the air. I’m the last guy to make a stroke on the whole and rush the process worried about what the group behind thinks.

        I missed. Not only that, I three putt as I backhanded the two footer coming back.

        Moral of the story, don’t be so quick to judge who is to blame for slow play. I should have taken 3-5 seconds for that putt, but the guys behind would have probably hit into to me at that point, my group, well, they were done and now waiting for the slow player to finish putting already.(yes me, the guy who actually played the hole five times faster).
        In every competition I play over here, there is one aspect that I hate, the claim that the low handicapper is responsible for the pace of the group and it is up to the low marker to ensure that the group keeps pace. As you have shown, sometimes this is impossible.

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        • #19
          Not disagreeing with most of what is in this post but will add one more thing that I do not see changing any time soon. Although not unique to the Toronto area by any means, in general around Toronto you have to pay for pace on a course. The more open the tee sheet to the general public and the less expensive the round the slower the round will be on average. I say this as primarily a public golfer with some access to mid range private courses to compare to (and occasionally as a treat an invite to high end privates). It is pretty simple that depending on the course I go to I adjust my expectations for the time to play. To not do so just means setting oneself up for a day of frustration about slow play that was very predictable or on the flip side if one moves faster than expected you get to relish in the delight of having a lucky fast day.

          I played a round earlier this year on a high volume public course that typifies this. We waited for most of the round, for reasons we presumed were many, many groups ahead of us. Finished the 16th having already passed the 4 1/2 hour mark. Saw the group ahead (a group of 18 year old boys) all hitting on the cart girl while the entirety of the 17th hole was clear. The tee was sitting empty while they focused on their new game. We walked up to the tee block with clubs and balls in hand informing them if they did not want to golf we would play through. They were most affronted by this (what a shock) and scrambled to get their clubs. When we asked them why they had not teed off they said the time par for the course was 5 hours and claimed to be AHEAD of time expectations so decided to chill abit on the tee with the cute cart girl. The only reaction I could have was howling laughter at the absurdity of it all. The only way I could consider excusing them was remembering way back when what it was like to be an 18 year old boy. This is what I more or less expect on high volume public courses so I set aside the time to accomodate for it when I head to those courses.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by pendlebg View Post
            Not disagreeing with most of what is in this post but will add one more thing that I do not see changing any time soon. Although not unique to the Toronto area by any means, in general around Toronto you have to pay for pace on a course. The more open the tee sheet to the general public and the less expensive the round the slower the round will be on average. I say this as primarily a public golfer with some access to mid range private courses to compare to (and occasionally as a treat an invite to high end privates). It is pretty simple that depending on the course I go to I adjust my expectations for the time to play. To not do so just means setting oneself up for a day of frustration about slow play that was very predictable or on the flip side if one moves faster than expected you get to relish in the delight of having a lucky fast day.

            I played a round earlier this year on a high volume public course that typifies this. We waited for most of the round, for reasons we presumed were many, many groups ahead of us. Finished the 16th having already passed the 4 1/2 hour mark. Saw the group ahead (a group of 18 year old boys) all hitting on the cart girl while the entirety of the 17th hole was clear. The tee was sitting empty while they focused on their new game. We walked up to the tee block with clubs and balls in hand informing them if they did not want to golf we would play through. They were most affronted by this (what a shock) and scrambled to get their clubs. When we asked them why they had not teed off they said the time par for the course was 5 hours and claimed to be AHEAD of time expectations so decided to chill abit on the tee with the cute cart girl. The only reaction I could have was howling laughter at the absurdity of it all. The only way I could consider excusing them was remembering way back when what it was like to be an 18 year old boy. This is what I more or less expect on high volume public courses so I set aside the time to accomodate for it when I head to those courses.
            A course with a 5 hour advertised time par is probably one to avoid. Quite honestly have never heard of one with that long. Most as far as I have see run 4:10 to 4:30. I wonder if they actually knew what the course time par was?

            I agree that different courses can have different speeds, volume, tee time interval, course difficulty, distance between holes etc etc all impact pace.

            My slowest round this year, just under 4:30 was at a high end private CL course. My 2nd slowest 4 hrs 20, was at a very high end ( 30k initiation) GTA Private course . neither was a problem and both rounds great fun but just examples of that there are no guarantees. Both were 11 am tee times mid week as well.

            90+% of my golf is at a mid-upper public , I don't play weekends , usually out in the first hour and always sub 4 hours, often sub 3.5. as the day goes on things can get longer into the 4 -4:15 range.

            Weekend golf has always been slower but quite visibly worse in the past 2 seasons with so many new or returning golfers to the game. It is certainly a different clientele with different reasons for playing ( fun with friends and more fun). if you play anytime after 8 am on a weekend probably looking at 420 / 430 round time, could even be more at courses that dont actively marshal and or use 8/9 minute intervals. This is with most courses seeing a 30-40% uptick in play. We used to see 200-220 on a good weekend day, past two seasons 280-300 in peak summer the norm.

            I dont think it hurts to call the course and ask what their time par is and what they do to adhere to it. Even ask their tee time interval.

            I recall playing Maples of ballantrae ( now Royal Stoufville) one weekend 15 years or more ago . We had an early morning tee time. By time we got to 3rd tee there were 3 groups waiting at the tee box. That, iirc was a 5+ hour day and why I avoid playing weekends although had a great weekend round with Benz, Swaiin and Racmbs at TPC a year or 2 ago. Early off and no worries about pace
            Last edited by Weirfan; Nov 25, 2021, 08:58 AM.
            "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by BUCCI Putters View Post
              I was at Braeben this year, where a scenario played out that is all too familiar.

              Hole #6 , short 470 yards.

              I played a 2 iron off the tee (avoid the trap on the left) then hybrid to pin high (of which I waited for the green to clear)

              My three playing partners hit drivers off the tee. Two lost balls, hack outs, long shots in and all of them short of the green, in the fescue again etc etc etc. they were all longer than me off the tee, but took from 6 to 7 strokes to get near the green each. So far three players 18 to 20 strokes, me 2.

              Anyway, once we have all our carts at the greenside, they proceed to chip and pitch onto the green. I’m standing to the side of the green so they can play onto it, in the fairway, I can see two guys hands on the hips already. Once on the green, my second shot is still closer they their chips/pitches, I mark my ball and they putt. Now it’s my turn, I have a 6 footer for eagle, I glance to the right, and I see four guys now waiting to hit into the green with hands in the air. I’m the last guy to make a stroke on the whole and rush the process worried about what the group behind thinks.

              I missed. Not only that, I three putt as I backhanded the two footer coming back.

              Moral of the story, don’t be so quick to judge who is to blame for slow play. I should have taken 3-5 seconds for that putt, but the guys behind would have probably hit into to me at that point, my group, well, they were done and now waiting for the slow player to finish putting already.(yes me, the guy who actually played the hole five times faster).
              It makes total sense. I used to play copetown a lot as a single and would frequently ask/tell my playing partners to tee off as I walked to the back tee. For some reason they frequently would wait until I tee off.which means 2 minutes have probably been wasted, multiply this by holes 1,5,6,12,15 &16 and we have added 12 minutes.

              While there are plenty of mid-high handicaps that play fast their are plenty that take more time per shot X more shots which just takes more time.

              Let's no forget one of the reasons golf was in a long decline was because of the amount of time it took to play.
              Last edited by rodeohook; Nov 25, 2021, 08:50 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by BUCCI Putters View Post
                I was at Braeben this year, where a scenario played out that is all too familiar.

                Hole #6 , short 470 yards.

                I played a 2 iron off the tee (avoid the trap on the left) then hybrid to pin high (of which I waited for the green to clear)

                My three playing partners hit drivers off the tee. Two lost balls, hack outs, long shots in and all of them short of the green, in the fescue again etc etc etc. they were all longer than me off the tee, but took from 6 to 7 strokes to get near the green each. So far three players 18 to 20 strokes, me 2.

                Anyway, once we have all our carts at the greenside, they proceed to chip and pitch onto the green. I’m standing to the side of the green so they can play onto it, in the fairway, I can see two guys hands on the hips already. Once on the green, my second shot is still closer they their chips/pitches, I mark my ball and they putt. Now it’s my turn, I have a 6 footer for eagle, I glance to the right, and I see four guys now waiting to hit into the green with hands in the air. I’m the last guy to make a stroke on the whole and rush the process worried about what the group behind thinks.

                I missed. Not only that, I three putt as I backhanded the two footer coming back.

                Moral of the story, don’t be so quick to judge who is to blame for slow play. I should have taken 3-5 seconds for that putt, but the guys behind would have probably hit into to me at that point, my group, well, they were done and now waiting for the slow player to finish putting already.(yes me, the guy who actually played the hole five times faster).
                Sorry for off topic, but that was just an awesome play on the 6th, well the first 2 shots
                ...u remember which tee box u played that day ?
                Down wind, I can "pump it in 2" to about 50 yards short of the green and carded a few birdies this Summer
                All best and cheers !

                ...and as for slow play, IMHO, it's not so much the # of shots the biginners take, but the looking for (collecting) lost balls, taking 20 practice swings, and other "antics" that slow down the play.
                "The secret of happiness, you see, is not found in seeking more, but in developing the capacity to enjoy less" — Socrates

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by veryold View Post
                  Sorry for off topic, but that was just an awesome play on the 6th, well the first 2 shots
                  ...u remember which tee box u played that day ?
                  Down wind, I can "pump it in 2" to about 50 yards short of the green and carded a few birdies this Summer
                  All best and cheers !

                  ...and as for slow play, IMHO, it's not so much the # of shots the biginners take, but the looking for (collecting) lost balls, taking 20 practice swings, and other "antics" that slow down the play.
                  The back tees. It is a short course. 470 is a short par 5.

                  fyi. My playing partners were not beginners, in fact they are also friends of mine. It just so happened that they “sprayed” their tee balls on that hole, and recovery was impossible. The entire course plays this way as you know. Braeben is a municipal course. If beginners can’t play there, where do they go? The only problem is the fescue. Very punishing. A couple young players from the national golf club were there that day, they were also surprised how difficult the course plays if your off line…..

                  I have played this course in a foursome, tee off third group sauturday morning, numbers were 69, 78, and two in 80s and we played in 3:40 or just under. It can be done when balls are in play on majority of tee shots. It is what it is.

                  As for the private clubs( not semi private), typically beginners are not there (who would spend that money on initiation their first, second, or third year playing) and play faster, in general.
                  Last edited by BUCCI Putters; Nov 25, 2021, 09:32 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by pendlebg View Post
                    I played a round earlier this year on a high volume public course that typifies this. We waited for most of the round, for reasons we presumed were many, many groups ahead of us. Finished the 16th having already passed the 4 1/2 hour mark. Saw the group ahead (a group of 18 year old boys) all hitting on the cart girl while the entirety of the 17th hole was clear. The tee was sitting empty while they focused on their new game.
                    Insufficient information to comment on this situation. Photos of the cart girl would help.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I have found that, generally, the later in the morning one tees off, the slower the round. Conversely, the earlier the tee time, the faster the round. That's why I RARELY tee off after 7 a.m., and usually well before that.
                      This isn't a dress rehearsal. Enjoy yourself. There's no do-over.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by mpare View Post
                        I have found that, generally, the later in the morning one tees off, the slower the round. Conversely, the earlier the tee time, the faster the round. That's why I RARELY tee off after 7 a.m., and usually well before that.
                        our round will never happen ... at 7 AM I can barely find my coffee mug in the kitchen, if I even find the kitchen
                        Cheers !
                        ... oh, sometimes I cherish playing late in the evening and ALONE, after they close the 1st hole, even if I get only an hour and a half of play before darkness.
                        "The secret of happiness, you see, is not found in seeking more, but in developing the capacity to enjoy less" — Socrates

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Rarely is not never. We'll figure something out.

                          Originally posted by veryold View Post
                          our round will never happen ... at 7 AM I can barely find my coffee mug in the kitchen, if I even find the kitchen
                          Cheers !
                          ... oh, sometimes I cherish playing late in the evening and ALONE, after they close the 1st hole, even if I get only an hour and a half of play before darkness.
                          This isn't a dress rehearsal. Enjoy yourself. There's no do-over.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by mpare View Post
                            Rarely is not never. We'll figure something out.
                            GREAT ... and YES, the "NEVER" word should be used with caution
                            Cheers !
                            "The secret of happiness, you see, is not found in seeking more, but in developing the capacity to enjoy less" — Socrates

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              It seems like the majority in this thread want to play golf in the least amount of time possible. Tee off at dawn, play alone, screw the newbies and so on. I don't get it. Life is frantic enough, so what is wrong with spending 4-4.5 hours with good friends in a very pleasant outdoor setting? Are you having tea with the Queen at 1:00 PM?

                              Perhaps some of you need sharper spouse bargaining skills.
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                              • #30
                                [QUOTEThe only way I could consider excusing them was remembering way back when what it was like to be an 18 year old boy. . [/QUOTE]

                                Ah yes, to be 18 again with mind and body focused on one thing and one thing only. Wish I could remember what that thing was.

                                Fortunately there are no rules limiting the number of golf balls you can carry during a match!

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