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  • #31
    Doesn't exist anymore, what I witnessed this year is a travesty to the game and my home course should be ashamed. And unfortunately the squeaky wheel doesn't get the grease.
    " the only shots you can be dead sure of are those you've had already."

    WHATS IN THE BAG

    Ping I20 9.5 stiff
    Sonartec 2.5 3/5 woods
    Mcgregor hybrids 3,4,5
    Ping i20
    MacGregor response
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    • #32
      Originally posted by Weirfan View Post

      Unfortunate, both issues ( blaring music and heavy drunkenness ) happen but are in my experience , not commonplace , more a rare exception. Yes drinking and music are common and perhaps moreso at resort course like Monterra and in Niagara Falls which are common destinations for boys weekends, stags and the like.

      "Blaring " music and drunken and boisterous patronage are both issues that the golf course should have addressed with your playing partners.
      Sometimes its better to just to say nothing and go with the flow

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      • #33
        Originally posted by snaphooker235 View Post

        Sometimes its better to just to say nothing and go with the flow
        indeed , it is up to your discretion. I would have likely done nothing as well because there is very little that can happen on a course that bothers me to the point of disrupting my enjoyment when I am playing ( yes excessively long rounds are a PITA but I will still enjoy myself and the company) as long as nobody is being hurt or causing damage to the course I really don't care what people do. ( if it's the course I work at and I am playing and see something untoward I have a tighter tolerance and will make sure it is addressed)

        I wasn't meaning that needed to be the one to complain. The course should be providing a degree of oversight. With respect to the 'blaring " tunes the marshal should have noticed if it that loud and said something. If nobody from the course came to address it with them, it tells me that it didn't bother anyone else to the point they wanted to complain.

        with the drunkenness, this becomes a liability for the course and they should be better aware of how much they are serving patrons.
        Last edited by Weirfan; Oct 21, 2018, 03:14 PM.
        "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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        • #34
          Originally posted by bcampb00 View Post
          From reading past debates on pace, I have concluded that groups with an expectation that 3 1/2 hrs for a four ball simply can’t share golf courses with groups who think 4 1/2 is about right. Neither expectation is right or wrong, they are just different and incompatible..
          Where do you 'draw the line' ?

          What about 4 hrs vs 6 hrs ? Neither "right or wrong" there ?

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          • #35
            I’m new to the game. I think I understand etiquette. I like the anology of holding a door open for someone even when your in a hurry. It’s all about common decency and it goes both ways.
            I’m played today as a walking single. Course was almost empty.Two guys behind me in a cart. I new they were there and I was feeling rushed. Nothing to do with them. Just me. First par 3 hole by the time I got to my ball just off the green they were on the tee. I waved them on and let them play through. Usual pleasantries. All good. I was much more relaxed for the rest of the round.
            Played Columbus this summer with 3 other guys. 2 of us not really strong golfers. 3rd guy good golfer but real slow. 4th guy is handicapped with a missing leg. Playing reds but a decent golfer. Slow due to his handicap. Blue flag on his cart.
            Course is busy. We are lagging a bit but no open holes ahead of us. I guess we are half a hole behind? (Group ahead is on the green guess we should be on the fairway but we are on the tee) Foursome behind us starts yelling. I guess at us. Marshall comes by and asks if they can play through. Of course they can. They come up, jump out of the carts, hit their tee shots, jump back in and down the fairway, jump out, hit jump back in. So now its clear. If they are in the fairway we HAVE to be off the green.
            i guess first thing is, if that’s golf (racing around a course) then not for me. I get pace of play. But rushing through is not my idea of a good time.
            In my opinion these guys were just ignorant. Bullying their way through the course.
            I would be hesitant to play the course again.

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            • #36
              As for singles, unless its an empty course or late in the day, busy courses should never allow singles or even 2-somes to go out. This only creates problems. We will always try to send out people in groups of 3/4. Of course some try and manipulate the system by booking for 4 , showing up with two. They are usually disappointed when they get paired up or have to wait a bit to go out with a later twosome

              If the "wait a bit" is for a twosome less than two start times(20min) behind, that makes perfect sense. However, having a twosome waiting more than twenty minutes is ridiculous. I can understand courses having singles wait for appropriate placement but If a booked foursome has a two person cancellation, you shouldn't assume they're trying to manipulate the system. Place them in their time slot, find a single or twosome to play with them. If there isn't anyone available to join them, and you can't move an available on course twosome to play with them then send them out.
              I would not expect or appreciate a complaint of pace of play from them if the starter and or marshall explained appropriate pace given patron volume.
              What's In The Bag:
              Driver: Callaway Ai Smoke Triple Diamond 9*
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              • #37
                Originally posted by just123123 View Post
                As for singles, unless its an empty course or late in the day, busy courses should never allow singles or even 2-somes to go out. This only creates problems. We will always try to send out people in groups of 3/4. Of course some try and manipulate the system by booking for 4 , showing up with two. They are usually disappointed when they get paired up or have to wait a bit to go out with a later twosome

                If the "wait a bit" is for a twosome less than two start times(20min) behind, that makes perfect sense. However, having a twosome waiting more than twenty minutes is ridiculous. I can understand courses having singles wait for appropriate placement but If a booked foursome has a two person cancellation, you shouldn't assume they're trying to manipulate the system. Place them in their time slot, find a single or twosome to play with them. If there isn't anyone available to join them, and you can't move an available on course twosome to play with them then send them out.
                I would not expect or appreciate a complaint of pace of play from them if the starter and or marshall explained appropriate pace given patron volume.
                Of course not every cancellation is somebody trying to manipulate the system but it happens a fair bit and the tell-tell is usually when you say to them that they are joining up with another twosome or single and their reaction. Sorry, but we are running a business here and you have no say in the matter. This is where some starters will tell them that the first open tee time for a twosome is this afternoon at 4 so it's up to them what they want to do. The best thing as somebody stated above is to charge an admin penalty for each spot booked but not used or better yet charge full pop for the spots they booked but didn't fill, now they own that 4some spot and can play as a twosome if they like. This problem will quickly resolve itself.

                Then, there is the other side of the coin, a group booked for 2 but show up with 3 or 4 and expect to go out as per the time booking but the other open times have been filled.

                Yes there needs to be discretion applied when moving people around. Players show up early, show up late, 3 are there ready to go at their tee time, one is stuck in traffic so you send the three off and shuttle the laggard out when they arrive, some don't show at all. It's not that twosomes don't get sent out on busy days, ( on a quiet day it's a non issue ) it's just every effort is made to try fill spots , and as you say, a twosome is probably going to play quicker than a course full of 4's so they have that to deal with.

                Lots of shuffling and changes to the tee sheet takes place every day but booked spots that are no shows is a big revenue kill and so courses need to do what they can to fill those as best they can with minimal impact.
                Last edited by Weirfan; Oct 21, 2018, 04:21 PM.
                "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Weirfan View Post
                  Then, there is the other side of the coin, a group booked for 2 but show up with 3 or 4 and expect to go out as per the time booking but the other open times have been filled.
                  I have seen this kind of crap too often, and it's usually the single (assigned to fill out the tee-time) who is expected or told to step aside. IMO, that practice is just plain wrong. If a booked threesome shows up with an extra, then the pro-shop should ask them which of the four wants to play later as a single. If they don't like it, they can play elsewhere. The single should not be inconvenienced just because the fourth person in a group did not make a commitment to play.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Weirfan View Post

                    Of course not every cancellation is somebody trying to manipulate the system but it happens a fair bit and the tell-tell is usually when you say to them that they are joining up with another twosome or single and their reaction. Sorry, but we are running a business here and you have no say in the matter. This is where some starters will tell them that the first open tee time for a twosome is this afternoon at 4 so it's up to them what they want to do. The best thing as somebody stated above is to charge an admin penalty for each spot booked but not used or better yet charge full pop for the spots they booked but didn't fill, now they own that 4some spot and can play as a twosome if they like. This problem will quickly resolve itself.
                    Forget about an 'admin fee'. It should be the full pop for the green fee.

                    I have often wondered whether some or all members of a foursome book separate times on the same day (even at different courses) but only intend to use one of those times. They simply don't show for the other times because there is rarely a financial penalty late cancellation or for a no-show, so why wouldn't they do it and have the flexibility to play when and where they want?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Benz View Post

                      I have seen this kind of crap too often, and it's usually the single (assigned to fill out the tee-time) who is expected or told to step aside. IMO, that practice is just plain wrong. If a booked threesome shows up with an extra, then the pro-shop should ask them which of the four wants to play later as a single. If they don't like it, they can play elsewhere. The single should not be inconvenienced just because the fourth person in a group did not make a commitment to play.
                      Agree whole heartedly, but the single is not likely to be very comfortable with the group who's friend was not allowed to play, regardless of how appropriate it was to pare down the offending group.

                      One way of dealing with this is to get the names of each player in each group as they reserve.

                      Fortunately there are no rules limiting the number of golf balls you can carry during a match!

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                      • #41
                        The golf industry is a tough business I think. There have been some suggestions here about keeping people honest with their bookings but honestly the first course that tried to play hardball would almost certainly see their rounds per year go down. Unless every course adopted the same approach at the same time this would just be a means for hurting your business.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ARL67 View Post
                          They probably thought: "Hey we're in a cart and he's walking , so he'll never catch us"

                          I often think those who take Carts have no idea how fast and efficient a walker can be.

                          And early morning golfers are there because they want to play without delay, not have a long drawn out social outing. I get irked when I'm out very early, in say the 2nd-3rd-4th tee time and the groups ahead are lollygagging about, looking too long for balls, or are so slow around the green.
                          I catch up to carts all the time. On Friday, walking, I caught up to a single in a cart who was teeing off on the 2nd as I teed off on the 1st. Only took me 4 holes to catch him, too.

                          Finished the front nine in 1 hour, 10 minutes. We caught up to some foursomes so the back nine took very nearly 2 hours but walking alone I can easily finish 18 holes in 2:20-2:30.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Marty Canuck View Post
                            The golf industry is a tough business I think. There have been some suggestions here about keeping people honest with their bookings but honestly the first course that tried to play hardball would almost certainly see their rounds per year go down. Unless every course adopted the same approach at the same time this would just be a means for hurting your business.
                            A lot of suggestions here like to exclude the profit motive for golf courses!

                            Playing hardball with your paying customers is a delicate act. It needs doing at times.

                            But kicking an unanticipated 4th out from a booked 3-some and forcing them to play with the single? That ain't gonna work. They'll either take all 4 green fees to another course, or they'll make life awkward for the single. In either case they're likely lost for the future.

                            I can imagine the single's round being uncomfortable. "Hey, you've got the honours so get on the tee now, a$$hole". "Sorry, did I make a noise in your backswing again, a$$hole?".

                            I just don't see that going well.....

                            (full disclosure, I'd never show up with an extra player, I'd call....)
                            "Confusion" will be my epitaph
                            ...Iggy

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Marty Canuck View Post
                              The golf industry is a tough business I think. There have been some suggestions here about keeping people honest with their bookings but honestly the first course that tried to play hardball would almost certainly see their rounds per year go down. Unless every course adopted the same approach at the same time this would just be a means for hurting your business.
                              I think it's course dependent in terms of how busy they are. I've seen busy restaurants ask for a cc and they will charge a as much as a $50 fee when you cancel a booking within a certain window before. Some doctors , vets and dentists do this now.

                              Courses in the states already do this, I experienced that during Masters week in Georgia.
                              If you are going to golf then book the tee time, don't book spots if you are not going to show, and if somebody bails, call and cancel the spot

                              IMO if people are hit with a small, say $25 penalty for booking times they don't use then they will soon learn and in the future will only book spots they will use. The golf course will then hopefully be able to fill these open spots rather than them sit empty or have to shuffle the deck to move people around. Revenue lost on spots booked but not used is more than green fee, it often includes revenue from cart fee, range balls, food and beverage and possibly even pro shop sales.

                              on a non busy course it might not make a difference,at my course the tee sheet is almost always close to full during peak season so any spot taken and not used is money lost
                              "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Fore Warned View Post

                                Agree whole heartedly, but the single is not likely to be very comfortable with the group who's friend was not allowed to play, regardless of how appropriate it was to pare down the offending group.

                                One way of dealing with this is to get the names of each player in each group as they reserve.
                                depending on the day , a single can probably be moved with minimal inconvenience, but not always. If the next spot that a single could fit isn't until 30 minutes later, who should be bumped the player there and slotted in or the extra player who came with the 3 some?
                                where possible yes, naturally they would try and let the 4 some who know each other go off together but what happens when a booking for 2 shows with 3 or 4 or a booking for 4 shows with 5 or 6 ? These sorts of things happen all the time. on a quiet day with an empty tee sheet these are non issues, but on a busy day they create problems and delays.

                                Then there is the group that is 20 minutes late for their 9 am tee time or thought they booked at 1045 but actually booked at 945 and of course they expect to tee off when they get there. This happens almost every day , sometimes multiple times, and the course being customer focused needs to squeeze them in between booked tee times which can slow play down, or push tee times back. These are situations where a group not showing can actually help matters.

                                its a daily juggling and balancing act to make sure everybody is happy
                                Last edited by Weirfan; Oct 22, 2018, 01:44 PM.
                                "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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