America is not for Black People

[bl8d]

Re: America is not for Black People

Have you ever been on one of those corporate "team building" exercises?

Same thing.

christmas party with DJ dressed in camo

Al Sharpton has pushed himself into the conga line leading the masses pro bono.

[bl8d]

Re: America is not for Black People

Things change.Some damning autopsy evidence coming to light.

The African American officer in charge does not look happy. He knows he is the conciliatory black face offered to the crowd. By now he likely feels he's been opted in the same boat as General Colin Powel was with WMD now that he knows the initial police report is suspect.

Brown was not shot at close range in a scuffle as purported by police. There were no tell tale traces of gunpowder on his body or clothes.

he was shot 6 times, in the front, two of those shots were to the head.

[Ignatius Reilly]

Re: America is not for Black People

I don't think things have changed much. It's just that the autopsy is confirming what was either known or suspected.

The stories about the police force in the earlier links - where they beat an innocent (and black) man and then charged him with bleeding on their uniforms - and then perjured themselves contradicting the sworn facts... show the force is more than a little corrupt.

Put a corrupt force that's 95% white in a city where the population is 67% black and.... "we have a problem".

Here, our Police Services has gone to some lengths to try to make itself representative of the population. I've thought it was unneccessary. Perhaps not.

[mrusse01]

Re: America is not for Black People

It seems like an incredible coincidence to me that Michael Brown, only moments after robbing a corner store and physically assaulting the storekeeper, would be the victim of an unwarranted shooting by a local police officer.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who we have video evidence of him intimidating, assaulting, and robbing a local store, only moments before he was shot dead by police.

What seems more likely? That this criminal was minding his own business, walking down the street, and was gunned down by a police officer.....or the criminal got into a physical altercation with a cop (bad idea) and was subsequently shot and killed?

[Secam]

Re: America is not for Black People

What seems more likely? That this criminal was minding his own business, walking down the street, and was gunned down by a police officer.....or the criminal got into a physical altercation with a cop (bad idea) and was subsequently shot and killed?

I always thought that police carried firearms to protect themselves and the public from immanent attack. I guess the officer in question still felt threatened by the unarmed teen even after he had shot him for the fifth time.

[mrusse01]

Re: America is not for Black People

I always thought that police carried firearms to protect themselves and the public from immanent attack. I guess the officer in question still felt threatened by the unarmed teen even after he had shot him for the fifth time.

I'm sorry, but this "unarmed teen" was a criminal and a thug. If you physically attack a police officer, especially when you are 6"4 and nearly 300lbs....don't be surprised if the officer shoots you dead.

[Pimento Cheese]

Re: America is not for Black People

It seems like an incredible coincidence to me that Michael Brown, only moments after robbing a corner store and physically assaulting the storekeeper, would be the victim of an unwarranted shooting by a local police officer.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who we have video evidence of him intimidating, assaulting, and robbing a local store, only moments before he was shot dead by police.

What seems more likely? That this criminal was minding his own business, walking down the street, and was gunned down by a police officer.....or the criminal got into a physical altercation with a cop (bad idea) and was subsequently shot and killed?

You say that as if there are only two possible scenarios, and as if there's no possible scenario in which there was some sort of physical altercation AND an officer who unnecessarily fired six bullets into the victim.

You'll find that there are many physical altercations with police officers that don't result in a person being shot to death. Witnesses have said he had his arms raised. The most recent autopsy suggests that at least one shot hit him either while his hands were raised, or while his back was turned.

There is, at the very least, very solid ground for investigating the officer's actions. Eye-witnesses and forensics at least seem to be in the same ballpark. And we only have the officer's word that the victim was a threat to him; the forensics, so far, don't even support the sort of close-range shooting that the officer claims was necessary.

[51Phantom]

Re: America is not for Black People

As usual John Oliver had an insightful view on this subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A

[Secam]

Re: America is not for Black People

It seems like an incredible coincidence to me that Michael Brown, only moments after robbing a corner store and physically assaulting the storekeeper, would be the victim of an unwarranted shooting by a local police officer.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who we have video evidence of him intimidating, assaulting, and robbing a local store, only moments before he was shot dead by police.

What seems more likely? That this criminal was minding his own business, walking down the street, and was gunned down by a police officer.....or the criminal got into a physical altercation with a cop (bad idea) and was subsequently shot and killed?

According to the WSJ, the officer didn't even know that Brown was a suspect in the store robbery. He simply pulled him over for jay walking.

The store owner says it wasn't Brown on the surveillance video.

[mrusse01]

Re: America is not for Black People

You say that as if there are only two possible scenarios, and as if there's no possible scenario in which there was some sort of physical altercation AND an officer who unnecessarily fired six bullets into the victim.

You'll find that there are many physical altercations with police officers that don't result in a person being shot to death. Witnesses have said he had his arms raised. The most recent autopsy suggests that at least one shot hit him either while his hands were raised, or while his back was turned.

There is, at the very least, very solid ground for investigating the officer's actions. Eye-witnesses and forensics at least seem to be in the same ballpark. And we only have the officer's word that the victim was a threat to him; the forensics, so far, don't even support the sort of close-range shooting that the officer claims was necessary.

I had read the most recent autopsy reports suggest that all the shots were from the front, which directly contradict the closest eyewitness (his partner in crime from the corner store robbery) report that the officer shot him in the back.

I agree 100% that there is solid ground for investigating the officer's actions; I would hope any time anyone is shot to death by police there is solid ground for investigating the officer's actions.

I'm not so sure about your assertion as to how often a 6'4 300lb aggressive man gets into a physical confrontation with a lone police officer and DOESN'T end up getting shot. Again, if you physically assault a police officer, of course it doesn't give him carte blance to legally kill you, but it certainly significantly increases your odds of ending up dead.

If it turns out that the evidence does show this officer unlawfully killed Michael Brown, then of course, send him away for murder. My guess though is that the multiple investigations now underway in this case all reach the same conclusion and that the officer never faces any charges.

[68shark]

Re: America is not for Black People

It seems like an incredible coincidence to me that Michael Brown, only moments after robbing a corner store and physically assaulting the storekeeper, would be the victim of an unwarranted shooting by a local police officer.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who we have video evidence of him intimidating, assaulting, and robbing a local store, only moments before he was shot dead by police.

What seems more likely? That this criminal was minding his own business, walking down the street, and was gunned down by a police officer.....or the criminal got into a physical altercation with a cop (bad idea) and was subsequently shot and killed?

Sorry Mrusse01, while I agree with your thoughts, most will condemn you as being on the "wrong side" of this debate. I'd support criminal sanctions against the officer once all the facts are known, investigations are complete and the evidence leads to that conclusion. Until then, the rush to condemn the officer is premature. As you point out, there are other scenario's that need to be examined and confirmed/rejected as part of the investigation.

[mrusse01]

Re: America is not for Black People

According to the WSJ, the officer didn't even know that Brown was a suspect in the store robbery. He simply pulled him over for jay walking.

The store owner says it wasn't Brown on the surveillance video.

Didn't Brown's accomplice admit it was them on the video?

Doesn't matter to me that the officer didn't know Brown was a suspect, I'm sure he didn't. What the video does show me (assuming it is Brown) is that Brown is a criminal and a thug, a guy who has no problem using his physical size to inimidate and injure others. It leads to reason that perhaps he tried to pull the same intimidation stunt on a police officer and it led to a physical confrontation.

[avidgolfer]

Re: America is not for Black People

I always thought that police carried firearms to protect themselves and the public from immanent attack. I guess the officer in question still felt threatened by the unarmed teen even after he had shot him for the fifth time.

Two sides. Missouri is a state that allows concealed carry. Cops can't assume anybody is unarmed/harmless. That kind of complacency can get you killed quickly on the job.

Young cops in the US also have a tendency to be gungho in their decision making especially since they have the badge to back them up. They can become "thugs" who over step the boundaries.

I don't have all the details but from what I have read, the kid who got shot wasn't 100% innocent and he didn't deserve to get shot 6 times. The truth is in the middle somewhere.

This has been a long time festering issue in America and this event ignited it into a hot fireball.

[Pimento Cheese]

Re: America is not for Black People

I had read the most recent autopsy reports suggest that all the shots were from the front, which directly contradict the closest eyewitness (his partner in crime from the corner store robbery) report that the officer shot him in the back.

I haven't seen the full transcript, but if the pathologist said all the shots were from the front, he then contradicted himself by pointing to an uncertainty when he added this:

At the news conference, Parcells said it was unclear what position Brown's arms were in during the shooting.
He said a graze wound on Brown's arm could have occurred in a number of different ways: Brown could have had his back to the officer, or he could have been facing the officer with his hands in the air or in front of his face in a defensive position. "We don't know," he said.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/pathologist-we-don-t-know-if-michael-brown-s-arms-were-up-1.1964365

That certainly could support the contention that his arms were raised. Either that, or his back was turned.

Also note that the killing shots to the head entered through the top of his head. As you have pointed out, Brown was 6'4. He would have had to be bent over. I'll be interested in hearing how the officer felt Brown was a threat in that position. It's been suggested that he may have been charging head first, but to my knowledge the officer has never made that claim himself, which surely would be a claim he'd make in his first statement.

I agree 100% that there is solid ground for investigating the officer's actions; I would hope any time anyone is shot to death by police there is solid ground for investigating the officer's actions.

I'm not so sure about your assertion as to how often a 6'4 300lb aggressive man gets into a physical confrontation with a lone police officer and DOESN'T end up getting shot. Again, if you physically assault a police officer, of course it doesn't give him carte blance to legally kill you, but it certainly significantly increases your odds of ending up dead.

If there was a physical confrontation, the shooting would have occurred during that confrontation, not afterwards; so far, there has been no forensic indication -- nothing from the autopsies -- to suggest a close-range shooting. The officer has claimed to have shot him at close range during the scuffle. If that is true, then some forensic support should emerge. If it doesn't, it calls into question the officer's account, and if the officer was not completely truthful about when and how he started shooting, it calls his entire defence into question.

And if there was a physical confrontation, I have yet to hear a justification for six shots. What would the reason for six shots be? He wasn't armed. The "fire until suspect subdued" tactic is generally for armed suspects. So, were they self-defence shots? They would have had to occur while physically entangled. That means close-range. Were all the shots close-range while he and the officer were in a tussle? I have trouble understanding how wounds to different parts of the body could have occurred in the midst of a struggle. At least some of those shots must have occurred after the officer was free of the victim (or the victim was free of the officer, depending on your take).

Was Brown responsible for having a police revolver pointed at him? That's entirely possible. But from what we've heard, there's a real question about whether he was responsible for six shots being fired, with the fifth and sixth being the killing blows. Sammy Yatim was also completely responsible for having police firearms pointed at him, but should not have been fired upon when he was. That's a completely different situation, of course, and I only bring it up to illustrate that police are often completely justified in drawing their weapons, but that doesn't mean they're always justified if they end up firing their weapons.

[northernpro]

Re: America is not for Black People

I was just reading a article on the Ferguson Police Dept..over 90% of police
stops are against black people..their police dept has 47 white officers..only 3 black..it sounds like a powder keg ready to go off