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2019 Toronto Blue Jays Season

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  • Originally posted by Sportyluis View Post
    I thought they wanted to keep him around as an influence on biggio and Bichette in a mentor capacity bs trading for a low level minor league player. I’m assuming they would’ve talked to Galvis about this before hand to ensure he was ok with that. Sounds like maybe they didn’t and Galvis requested to be released vs being a back up?
    I think you're probably right that some communication issues led to this less-than-ideal turn of events. The only thing that makes any sort of sense is that after the deadline, the Jays became aware of a greater dissatisfaction than they were aware of before the deadline. What was communicated before the deadline, we don't know, but the Jays either underestimated the dissatisfaction or failed to even ask.

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    • Grand slam 13-1....this is too much fun...Texas

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      • Originally posted by Pimento Cheese View Post
        It makes sense for all involved to send Galvis elsewhere rather than rotating him through 2B/SS/DH to deal with the middle-infield logjam … But I have trouble believing they couldn't have dealt him at the deadline and at least received something in return. Even with treating his 2019 offence as an outlier, elite defence and a year and a half of control should at least get a return of some sort.
        Ross Atkins is exactly who I thought he was . . . very bad!! We had inquiries . . . what were you waiting for then. Just awful, can we send him back to Cleveland?
        If you think it's hard to meet new people, try picking up the wrong golf ball.

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        • Originally posted by Chambokl View Post

          Ross Atkins is exactly who I thought he was . . . very bad!! We had inquiries . . . what were you waiting for then. Just awful, can we send him back to Cleveland?
          I think he's bad at trading. But he seems to be good at building a farm system, drafting, etc. How much of that is him and how much is Shapiro, it's tough to say. And we really haven't seen what he can do when it comes to signing impact free agents, so that's an unknown.

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          • “How about those Blue Jays".

            Well the kids can hit. Some questions about their defense. An infield of Tellez/McKinney, Biggio, Guerrero and Bichette has no 'plus' defenders.

            We accept that the days of the defensive shortstop with no power and a .235 B.A. are long gone. But even with The Shift can a team win with 'all offense'?

            As a follow-up to the Galvis situation, when he signed, Gurriel had been 'anointed' as the starting SS (remember his consecutive game hit strike last season?). And everyone knew that Bichette was on his way to an eventual middle infield role. So when signing surely Galvis must have been aware that his starts would be limited?

            So why is that no given as a reason for moving him?

            And with the Mets having perhaps the worst infield defense in the Major Leagues, and their acquiring a ground ball pitcher in Stroman, couldn't Galvis have been thrown in for another prospect/suspect? Even if only for optics.

            I am guessing that Jays' management did not expect Bichette to come in and take over the job the way that he has. Galvis was kept as insurance, until it was determined there was no need for that insurance.

            And by waiving him they save the remainder of his salary for this season plus the $1 million buy-out of his contract. Which in the scheme of MLB teams is 'chump change'.

            Since this season is about development and assessment, wouldn't it made more sense to have moved Galvis by July 31st and called up Urena to see once and for all if he has a future with the Jays?

            In other matters, David Paulino, acquired in the Osuna trade was DFA'ed by the Jays yesterday.

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            • Originally posted by Arthur Dailey View Post


              I am guessing that Jays' management did not expect Bichette to come in and take over the job the way that he has. Galvis was kept as insurance, until it was determined there was no need for that insurance.

              Since this season is about development and assessment, wouldn't it made more sense to have moved Galvis by July 31st and called up Urena to see once and for all if he has a future with the Jays?
              Agree with this assessment on Bo's potential development and that the way he has exploded on the scene led to Fred moving on. Atkins alluded to this yesterday as well.

              As for Urena, if there was no desire to sit Bo and Cavan for Fred, why would they do so for Urena? Of note, as of next year Urena, only age 23, is out of options so I expect he becomes the 26th man next year (rosters increase by 1 in 2020) with he and Drury doing most of the IF back up work.

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              • Originally posted by Arthur Dailey View Post
                I am guessing that Jays' management did not expect Bichette to come in and take over the job the way that he has. Galvis was kept as insurance, until it was determined there was no need for that insurance.
                Insurance for what . . . really they gave up on the season in February . . . we all knew that. So basically they could put Smoak at SS, what is the difference. It is not about winning or losing it is about development . . .
                If you think it's hard to meet new people, try picking up the wrong golf ball.

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                • Originally posted by Arthur Dailey View Post
                  In other matters, David Paulino, acquired in the Osuna trade was DFA'ed by the Jays yesterday.
                  I know it's hard to measure trades too early but has Atkins made any trade in which the jays are currently considered a winner from a baseball perspective?

                  A second point. At the end of 2016 what sort of return would you have expected for Donaldson, Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna compared to what we actually received? I know this may not be a fair comparison as we were "trying to compete for the postseason" but even if you switch this to mid 2017 I still think we would've expected to receive more than we did.

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                  • Originally posted by Sportyluis View Post

                    I know it's hard to measure trades too early but has Atkins made any trade in which the jays are currently considered a winner from a baseball perspective?
                    Happ for Drury/McKinney. Happ has been brutal this year, posting a 0.1 WAR, and will be 37 in a couple of months, so he is getting near the end. Drury has a 0.7 WAR and is trending upwards, and has many years ahead of him. McKinney has seen limited action, of course, but is also youngish, with a 0.1 WAR in limited action. The Jays have received more value out of that trade and stand to get more mileage out of it. Happ was the perfect deadline trade, because he gave the receiving team what they needed down the stretch, but the trading team benefited from parting ways with him. I'd rather have Drury now and in the future than Happ's 5.48 ERA.

                    There's potential for the Jays to come out ahead on the Sanchez deal. If Sanchez ends up in the bullpen longterm (he continues to be inefficient with his pitchers, even in his supposed revitalization in Houston), and if Fisher can provide the offence his tools suggest he has in him, he could be a good part of our offence. Or if Sanchez's finger falls off, the trade will look good on us.


                    A second point. At the end of 2016 what sort of return would you have expected for Donaldson, Stroman, Sanchez and Osuna compared to what we actually received? I know this may not be a fair comparison as we were "trying to compete for the postseason" but even if you switch this to mid 2017 I still think we would've expected to receive more than we did.
                    I think the trying-to-contend thing makes the question a non-starter. They weren't going to trade them then. And it's probably not worth looking at the value received for Osuna, since there were non-baseball reasons for trading him.

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                    • Let's remove pitchers from the equation for a moment.

                      They got nothing for Encarnacion or Bautista, who both left as free agents. We are not sure how the return for Donaldson will work out (Merryweather has been shut down again for the remainder of the season). They paid Martin and Tulowitzki to go away. Revere eventually became a partial season of Benoit. Saunders was released. As was Goins. Now it looks like they will also get nothing for Smoak. Or Travis.

                      So if we include Pillar, that is the starting core from a team that went to the playoffs 2 seasons in a row, all who have left the organization. With Derek Law as the only return on the current MLB team.

                      They didn't 'pull the trigger' or 'go all in' with their aging but competitive roster in 2016, most of which they inherited from the 2015 team.

                      2017 was a disaster but they didn't 'tear the team down' for a rebuild that season, when those players may have still had some residual value. Instead they tried to compete by adding players like Morales, Pearce, and Saltalamacchia.

                      If we look at pitching they went into 2017 with Biagini and Bolsinger as their 5th and 6th starters and Loup as their only lefty in the bullpen. Did they realistically expect to be competitive with the pitching they started (and finished 2017 with?)

                      By the time they did make the required rebuilding moves, most of their veterans were too old, too broken down, or were recovering from injuries resulting in them being moved at their lowest market value.

                      Except for Happ, who was coming off 3 very good seasons, was in the middle of an all star season and for his age did not have an extreme number of innings pitched. A left handed starter such as that, should receive a fairly premium return. And he certainly performed for the Yankees, in the 2018 regular season.

                      So I do not think we can blame who lived through this to have some mistrust of current management's abilities.

                      However that is now all past. And the future does look very bright. If management can 'walk their talk' and their scouting/evaluation of the minor leaguers they acquired is correct (for at least half of them?) and they do open up Rogers' pocketbook and sign some creditable free agent pitchers.
                      Last edited by Arthur Dailey; Aug 13, 2019, 03:24 PM.

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                      • The Jays got Nate Pearson for Encarnacion. Pearson was the pick they received when he walked. If we had Edwin right now, I would trade him for Pearson straight up.

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                        • Pearson was the 28th pick.
                          The Jays drafted Logan Warmoth 22nd overall that year.

                          So I don't think that EE for Pearson was exactly part of a master plan by management.

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                          • Originally posted by Arthur Dailey View Post
                            Pearson was the 28th pick of the 1st round.
                            The Jays drafted Logan Warmoth 22nd overall that year.

                            So I don't think that EE for Pearson was exactly part of a master plan by management.
                            Except that it was. They didn't get the 22nd pick from Encarnacion, they got the Pearson pick. They used it to draft a guy other teams had been wary of. It was a smart draft pick that is paying off. And getting that pick WAS part of the planning. Teams included such things as comp picks when they made their decisions. They let him walk knowing that they'd get a comp pick in what projected to be a strong draft year. If a team is going to let a player go and covet the comp pick, then what they do with that comp pick is relevant.

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                            • Originally posted by Pimento Cheese View Post

                              Except that it was. They didn't get the 22nd pick from Encarnacion, they got the Pearson pick. They used it to draft a guy other teams had been wary of. It was a smart draft pick that is paying off. And getting that pick WAS part of the planning. Teams included such things as comp picks when they made their decisions. They let him walk knowing that they'd get a comp pick in what projected to be a strong draft year. If a team is going to let a player go and covet the comp pick, then what they do with that comp pick is relevant.
                              Geez are you related to Atkins or Shapiro? Or do they just have pictures of you using a toe wedge??

                              When they let EE go, did they know they would get the 28th pick overall and that Pearson would be available in that slot?

                              Particularly since they have admitted that they misplayed/misread the EE negotiations.

                              What it is, was more a case of making chicken salad out of chicken 'waste'. Will give them credit for that.

                              Now can anyone tell me who the guy is that has filled in the past few days on the radio broadcasts?
                              Last edited by Arthur Dailey; Aug 13, 2019, 04:39 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by Arthur Dailey View Post

                                Geez are you related to Atkins or Shapiro? Or do they just have pictures of you using a toe wedge??

                                When they let EE go, did they know they would get the 28th pick overall and that Pearson would be available in that slot?

                                Particularly since they have admitted that they misplayed/misread the EE negotiations.

                                What it is, was more a case of making chicken salad out of chicken 'waste'. Will give them credit for that.

                                Now can anyone tell me who the guy is that has filled in the past few days on the radio broadcasts?
                                I'm trying to tell you that it is not "letting a guy go for nothing" if you let him go knowing you get a first round draft pick. In other sports you can trade for draft picks; this was the closest baseball equivalent. It was only "let him go for nothing" when a team chose not to make a qualifying offer.

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