Wine Tip

[Bern]

Arrgh. I drink because I like the taste. I don't care much about character. I read wine reviews and to be honest, they make me laugh. And the whole paring this red wine with this dish just makes me laugh as well.

Deep purple colour. Aromas of rich dark currants, nectarine skins, gushing blackberry, but lots of fragrant tobacco, rich soil, white flowers, smashed minerals and metal. Medium-bodied and saucy but racy acidity stabilises the wine nicely with the robust tannins. Deep red currants and ripe cherries, laden with mocha, loamy soil, charred herbs, pencil shavings, roasted hazelnut. Dense like characters that make it perfect for cellaring, however it is drinkable straight away once you expose it to the earth’s atmosphere.

Not everyone is fanatical about it or cares that much. I like wine, I drink it. The $9 bottles I enjoy just as much as the $15 bottles I used to buy.

Sure there are a lot of pretentious aspects to wine, no one denies that. I am always searching for that elusive cheap and good bottle. And some wine is just horrible.

As to pairing wines, you really need to experience it. The right wine with the right food really is a delight.

[nomullies]

Good stuff
Again, if u haven't already, give SC Red a try.
Cheers !

Will do Serge. FYI my daily reds are Carlo Rossi (some scoff but it's light and never a hangover), Itialian Monte Antico $16, Wanted Zin $14 or so, Yellow Tail Shiraz $13. I've recently tried and enjoyed Cali Bread and Butter $18 or so, and Carnivor same price. Both good. My fave over $20 is J Lohr cab.

[Weirfan]

Will do Serge. FYI my daily reds are Carlo Rossi (some scoff but it's light and never a hangover), Itialian Monte Antico $16, Wanted Zin $14 or so, Yellow Tail Shiraz $13. I've recently tried and enjoyed Cali Bread and Butter $18 or so, and Carnivor same price. Both good. My fave over $20 is J Lohr cab.

Monte Antico is another goto favourite that has hung around . 10 years ago , for my 50th 4 of us did an outpost fishing trip in Northern Quebec for a 5 days, of the litres and litres of booze we brought it in luded a case of this.

an excellent, value wine at under $16

[Jeffc]

Sure there are a lot of pretentious aspects to wine, no one denies that. I am always searching for that elusive cheap and good bottle. And some wine is just horrible.

As to pairing wines, you really need to experience it. The right wine with the right food really is a delight.

Horrible to you but again, it is personal in terms of taste (And I have had some not very good cheap wines as well). Same for "cheap". $20 might be cheap for you, $10 for others. Not any different than most things in life.

There was a thread here recently on Muskoka golf courses where one poster referred to a course as awful. Now I have not played it, but it looked nice enough from their website and other posters liked it and there are lots of very favourable reviews onlike. The comment was made by a guy that really appreciates golf course architecture and compares it to the best courses around. I truly doubt it is awful. I have played many courses and there are very few I would rate as awful and if so, are usually goat tracks in a drought.

[veryold]

Will do Serge. FYI my daily reds are Carlo Rossi (some scoff but it's light and never a hangover), Itialian Monte Antico $16, Wanted Zin $14 or so, Yellow Tail Shiraz $13. I've recently tried and enjoyed Cali Bread and Butter $18 or so, and Carnivor same price. Both good. My fave over $20 is J Lohr cab.

Hey Al, MUCH APPRECIATED
Well, looks like you got me another one (Carlo Rossi) to try and is available in my local (walking distance) very small size and limitted selection LCBO. It has all 5 stars reviews on LCBO site, which is excellent.
Again, THANKS and Cheers

[Ignatius Reilly]

I have tried a lot of different wines.

We have had wine with every dinner for 20+ years now and because I crave change, I've probably tried 20 * 52 * 3.5 = 3640 wines by now. Maybe more, maybe less. Needless to say we have a good sized Vintages at my (4 minutes walk) store.

I had books and books on wine. Was a member of Opimian Society.

I'm also cheap.

Over the years, I worked my way through the various countries as they became available/acceptable/fashionable/affordable. Started with France, Germany and Italy. Then got adventurous and tried an American wine. That was in the mid 70s around the time of the "Judgement of Paris". American wines were not very popular here yet.

From there I went on what felt like increasingly risky countries: Spain, Portugal (rough), Aussie (they make wine??), Chile, Argentina, South Africa..... Canada. I would go through most of the available selections from each country, then move on to the next.

What did I learn?

1) Every country makes some good wines

2) At the low end, the vintage year can really make a difference. We would change Chilean cabs each year as Undurraga was great, then Santa Carolina, then Cousiño-Macul, then.... If your fave wine doesn't taste great one day, that could be the cause.

3) At the high end you reach diminishing returns on your dollar pretty quickly. There are quite good wines under $25, and I haven't found anything over $40 that I really felt was worth it. Despite several tries. At the very high end you are buying a famous label like DRC, LaTour or Margaux. Those were the best in the world.... in 1855. I'm pretty sure things have changed since then. Not that I'd know, I've never tasted any of them. It just seems "likely".

4) Canadian wines have made huge strides in quality. As well as price. In general I find them overpriced.

5) We all have different palates and budgets. You like what you like, and it's worth being cautious of developing too refined a sense of taste as that just sets you back financially.

6) Tastes do change over time. As kids our parents would indulge is with a bottle of Deinhard Green Label on special occasions, so it was one of my early faves when I could buy my own. I can't drink that now, just a tad sweet. At the same time I hated Sauv Blanc at first, then grew to love it. Same with Pinot Noir. Yikes, there's that refined taste coming back to bite me in the wallet....

So.... my current (last few years) strategy has been to buy anything rated over 90 and priced under $20. I haven't loved everything, but at the same time haven't had any dogs either.

Anyways, IMO it's worth finding lists of "great value wines" like that one from The Star, trying them out and going from there.

[jimfastcar]

We drink wine most nights with dinner. I try and keep a broad enough selection to pair well with whatever we are having. Some foods only pair well with Beer, for example Curries.
It is my experience, and of course there are exceptions, that the $ 20-25 offers good choices. Far from a wine snob, but I have rarely had a wine below that that I have enjoyed. Not saying they do not exist.
I will also stretch to $ 35-40 for some wines I expect will be very nice, notably Burgundies or California Cabs of pedigree. I have a good wine cellar, so I do keep some wines for years. And yes, absolutely there is a point of diminishing returns - I could pick out bad wine in a blind tasting, but I am not sure I would choose the Margaux as # 1, so no point in dropping $ 600 for a bottle.

[Fredk]

I have tried a lot of different wines.

...

Well put. I believe the correct term for those who place high value on, um, value, is frugal.

I have actually found a few wines that were worth the higher price tag including an exceptional red from Vieni estates in Niagara. At that price, I definitely want a taste before I buy.

I also find that how good, or not so good a wine is can be hard to judge in the absence of something to compare to. I remember an occasion at my fathers where we were enjoying an inexpensive Chilean wine before dinner. We then moved on to a $50 bottle at dinner. That quite drinkable inexpensive wine became very flat and the expensive wine became worth every penny spent and then some.

I love going into the Niagra region on tasting expeditions every year precisely because the value wines change from year to year. Every trip we find a couple of good bargains as well as a few that are worth what we paid. There are also some wineries there that produce good wines that are, IMO overpriced due to their popularity.

I find my limit for tasting to be around four or five wineries, so we always pick new places to go. I can't say I've tried the range of wines you have, but I find it fun to go on the hunt for that next unknown bargain.

For times when I'm not sure, I found an online review site made up of a group of Toronto area wine writers that publish lists of recommended wines across the price spectrum. I don't subscribe, so I don't have access to their most recent recommendations, but I can usually still find stock on something the recommended a few months back.

[thebogeyman]

A couple of my favourite value/daily drinkers:

El Gorú Monastrell/Syrah/Petit Verdot - $13.95
The Grinder Pinotage - $14.15
Cantina San Paolo Aglianico 2017 - $14.95, order 1 or 2 cases every year when it's released

Follow TorontoVino on Instagram/Twitter. He's a wine consultant with the LCBO. Have like 95% of the recommendations of his that I have tried

[Marty Canuck]

Hey Al, MUCH APPRECIATED
Well, looks like you got me another one (Carlo Rossi) to try and is available in my local (walking distance) very small size and limitted selection LCBO. It has all 5 stars reviews on LCBO site, which is excellent.
Again, THANKS and Cheers

“I like talking about Carlo Rossi wines, but I’d rather drink ‘em!”

That was the tag line from one of their ads spoken by Carlo Rossi. Haven’t bought any of that in about 30 years.

[bobby Jones]

Certainly not under the value category but, I did manage to pick up a couple special release older Tignanellos's last week that were on offer from vintages. I do like to collect. I have gone through different stages where my interest has ebbed and flowed. Its been high the last couple years. It is now time to start sampling. Unfortunately my purchases of late have been for bottles that need to settle down, so come join me in 2030 - its going to be a year of wonderful drinking wine....I hope

I did purchase a bunch of Niagara 2017 reds. 2017 weather wise, especially in September was as good as you could get in Niagara. So far, I have enjoyed Stratus Red, Icellars cabernet and cabernet reserve. I have one other Stratus 2017 saved and need to get back to Icellars to restock but, need to go quick as 2017's are becoming very scarce. I have another dozen or so 2017's that I am going to begin to attack this winter. Unfortunately my budget didn't allow me double or triple up on bottles so if I find anything I like, it might be a one off. The higher end Ontario wines are pricey compared to alternatives but, it is also nice having something out of your back yard so to speak.

[kimi]

https://www.thestar.com/life/food_wine/advice/2022/03/31/top-10-bottles-under-10-at-the-lcbo-right-now.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=thestar_life

With the cost of living on the rise, it’s nice to know you can still get a delicious glass of wine for under $10 in Ontario — if you know which bottle to buy. So here’s your shopping list of smart value finds, starting with a gorgeous red from Italy.

The 2020 Botter Primitivo, Puglia IGT ($10 LCBO) tops this list because it drinks like a wine worth more than its price tag. First, it draws you in with its rich scents of Amarena cherry and pipe tobacco. Then, it powers forth with a robust, dry character — a brawny fistful of flavour that tastes wild and intriguing. Black cherry is met with black olive and freshly turned earth while mouthwatering acidity lifts the fruit and keeps each sip tasting lit. An unmistakable saltiness and gently bitter tug of tannin reminds you this is wine, not alcoholic fruit juice. And it’s fabulously food friendly. Score: 94

Also from Puglia is the 2020 Luccarelli Negroamaro IGT ($9.05 LCBO), which overdelivers for the money. From its fragrance of dried plum and smoked cherry to the polished entry, this red tastes of Italy. And it unfolds slowly with fig and coffee, graphite and black earth, and a touch of umami-rich meatiness somewhere. Very compelling wine for the money. Score: 92

Portugal is well known for Port. But it also makes excellent table wines at competitive prices, such as the very popular 2020 Bacalhoa JP Azeitao Syrah Castelao Aragonez ($9.45 LCBO). Expect wild berries on the nose — blueberries, blackberries and a touch of raspberry jam — and vinous flavours of muddled fruit laced with underbrush and slate that lingers on the finish. Score. 93

Also from Portugal comes the 2019 Casa Santos Lima Lab Vinho Regional Lisboa ($9.80 LCBO), with the silhouette of a dog on the label. This blend of traditional Portuguese grape varieties including Castelao, Tinta Roriz and Touriga Nacional tastes vivid and captivating, a mouthfilling swirl of mixed berries with vanilla, raspberry jam and a whisper of white pepper. A vibrant, friendly wine that’s easy to enjoy. Score: 91

If you’re a fan of velvety Californian Cabernet, the 2020 Canyon Road Cabernet Sauvignon ($9.95 LCBO) from that sunny state should set you up. Saturated and pure, this cassis-scented sipper erupts with a jammy hit of blackcurrant goodness imbued with milk chocolate, wild blueberries and a touch of cedar. It’s not wildly complex or terribly serious, but it’s stylistically on point and very well-priced. Score: 91

Also from sunny California comes a wine that evokes the season ahead: NV Barefoot Chardonnay (LCBO $9.95). This unpretentious pour starts with suggestions of baked apple, mixed citrus and a touch of butterscotch before streaming in like soft light. The cool, crisp attack tastes drier than you might think, and then it unfolds with apple and vanilla, burnt sugar and a twist of lemon before persisting a little bit on the finish. Score: 90

White wine lovers will want to taste the 2020 Spinelli Unoaked Chardonnay Terre di Chieti IGT from Italy ($8.80 LCBO). From its elegant aromas of wet stones and lemon zest to its crisp, bright burst of lemon-lime sorbet, this Italian quencher is bone dry, well-balanced and relatively low in alcohol with just 12 per cent. Honest value. Score: 90

Meanwhile, Pinot Grigio lovers looking for a crisp, clean drop that’s dry but not bone dry will enjoy the well-balanced NV Peller Family Vineyards Pinot Grigio ($9.95) from Ontario. An international blend of imported and domestic wine means it’s not going to be terroir-driven or offer serious finesse. But each citrusy sip sings with easy pleasure that won’t break the blank. Score: 89

For something that tastes more like a cocktail, pick up a bottle of the XOXO Pinot Grigio Sangria ($9.95 LCBO). Also an international blend of imported and domestic wine but infused with natural flavours of white peach, mango and passion fruit, this fruity drink tastes like a sunny summer day. Pour it on ice, garnish with fruit and imagine you’re on a beach somewhere. Score: 89

Capping this list is a little something sweet. The 2018 Inniskillin Vidal Icewine from Niagara ($7.95/50mL) makes a decadent dessert served solo or drizzled on a bowl of fresh fruit. Each glass cascades with complexity — oranges and poached peach, marmalade and praline, pastry and apple tart —all shot through with mouthwatering acidity that balances the luscious sweetness. Delish. Score: 92

[ARL67]

^^^ nice recommendations Kimi !
We'll see you at The Oaks of St. George soon enough

[4underthru9]

Sure there are a lot of pretentious aspects to wine, no one denies that. I am always searching for that elusive cheap and good bottle. And some wine is just horrible.
As to pairing wines, you really need to experience it.
The right wine with the right food really is a delight.

.......

[duffer_mcmulligan]

.......

This is brilliant! Howled with laughter.

So here is my take on wine….btw, I love wine….I started “collecting” around 1990, but I did not have much money but wanted wines to drink currently and also to lay down to experience the changes associated with properly cellared wines. I also experimented with making wines from both frozen juice (frozen Napa Chardonnay, Pinot Grigio and Sauvignon Blanc) juice, an Okanagan “field blend” of reds, possibly Cab Sauv, Merlot, etc, and kits…a “Wine Art” Vintages kit of “Bourdeau blend I ran on the field blend skins. Those were all started in the fall of 1995. In the spring of 1996, I was offered a transfer to Toronto, so I had to bottle 6 batches of wine in one weekend, before their time, IMO. The whites were OK, all developed wine diamonds in the bottle, not in itself an issue, but were drinkable. The “field blend” grape wine was horrendous. I broke my beer brewing rule with that (rule: I drink my mistakes, then I don’t make the same mistake twice). Even after two years, it was horrendous….down the drain. The kit on the skins, when opened was awful…really sulforous….but leave it open for 24 hours, it was consumable. The long and the short of it was that if I couldn’t make a wine equivalent to a $8-$10 bottle, don’t bother….


Anyways, I started buying ageworthy wines in about 1992. My price bracket was $25-$35/btl. At the time, Alberta had just opened liquor distribution to private enterprise. My local store, one of the managers had spent years working for the Best Winery, a family owned operation in Australia. Their store featured a ton of high value Aussi wines: Cabs, Merlots, various whites, but the boss was Shiraz. Coonawarra, old depleted soils, stressed. Old vines. Many pre-phylloxera. Some rootstocks are well over 100 yrs old. That is significant.

So loads of reds, in the 25-35 price bracket. At the time, given Canadian dollar weakness, also Aussi dollar weak, USD strength, there were few California values. At the time, the standout was Cadmus California Cab. So I had 6 of those. Best’s Bin “0” Shiraz, Best’s Thompson Valley Shiraz was a little over my limit, but I had two. Some Beringer Cab (always a decent value).

Most of those lasted maybe 7 or 8 years. When we moved back to Calgary, i continued buying value wines for aging. Mainly focussing on Aussies, but some Spanish Rioja, Portuguese reds (many in the teens price wise). Nut I always made sure daily drinkers were on hand.

So value wines, good quality: Argentine Malbecs (as much as they have been drunk to death), Southern French Languedocs of almost any varietal. They use modern stainless steel fermenting, clean flavours and meant to be drunk young. Great value. Southern Italy: unique varietals worth exploring both whites (surprising given the heat) and reds. Aussies still qualify.

Many California value wines have fallen down hard. J Lohr Cab used to be a terrific value. it is now thin, weak plonk.

I have never liked Oregon Pinot unless it was really special. Which usually means out of my price range.

So some good current drinkers that can age:

Chateau Thabilk (Aussi) Marsanne. When I bought the 1988 vintage, 4 bottles, they were $8 each. In 1992, it was a nice, very flavourful white, thick mouthfeel, off sweet. Had a bottle in 1999 or 2000. Became quite complex, golden in colour, but really complex. The last bottle went down in 2018. It too was complex, nutty, golden colours. Held up fabulously and transformed. An $8 bottle.

Piramimma Petit Verdot: usually a varietal used in a small portion of Boudreaux wines. Punchy, loads of fruit, and backbone. this Aussi is unique and special. Usually good for 3-5 years.

Gotta go, will add more later…..