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The Panic over the CoronaVirus [ Covid -19] is both Ridiculous and Unjustifed

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  • Eric Clapton said he would cancel any shows if the venue requires attendees prove they are vaccinated against Covid-19.

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    • Well this is good news, hopefully there will be some positive peer reviewed trials and hopefully will be given a chance to succeed amidst its competition, the vaccine...

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tim...salem-lab/amp/

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      • More interesting stuff out of Israel, apparently they are switching to Moderna and only using Pfizer for kids. I wonder if it's related to a lack of effectiveness or simply a business deal gone bad or something else entirely.

        https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haa...oon-1.10017431

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        • Originally posted by Golfninja View Post
          Well this is good news, hopefully there will be some positive peer reviewed trials and hopefully will be given a chance to succeed amidst its competition, the vaccine...

          https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tim...salem-lab/amp/
          Any therapeutics discovered wouldn't be competition for the vaccine, they would be teammates. I hope they are successful and help save lives. The same way the vaccines are.

          Your bias is showing...
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          • Originally posted by ace in the hazard View Post

            Any therapeutics discovered wouldn't be competition for the vaccine, they would be teammates. I hope they are successful and help save lives. The same way the vaccines are.

            Your bias is showing...
            Nope, no bias unlike our government and the rest of the world. Since we are in an experimental trial, ideally we'd be doing trials with different meds simultaneously with the vaccines. Ideally meds would be complimentary to vaccines, this is my wish too, but the reality is not. It's been all vaccine this whole time. I recall a doctor stating the reason (don't know if it's true or not but it makes sense) that if there was an approved medical treatment available for covid, an EUA authorization would not be allowed for the vaccines, so in order to push the vaccine, you can't have any meds available to treat covid.

            My bias is whatever works. I've gotten the jab because this was the only option. If there were other viable options, and I had a choice then maybe I would have chosen differently but the almighty jab was it. Since it's a novel coronavirus, we should be open to everything, not just one treatment solution(vaccines). My bias is health and safety and mass vaccination for everyone including children, as the only solution, is illogical and immoral. We're in an experiment and we can't even do a proper one at that.

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            • Originally posted by ace in the hazard View Post

              Any therapeutics discovered wouldn't be competition for the vaccine, they would be teammates. I hope they are successful and help save lives. The same way the vaccines are.

              Your bias is showing...
              Technically if an effective therpeutic were approved, the vaccines would have to be pulled in (at least) the U.S.. i believe part of the EUA stipulates that the vaccines can only be used if there is no approved effective therapeutic, of course if the FDA gave the vaccines full approval, this would be a moot point

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              • Originally posted by SeanAvery2point0 View Post

                Technically if an effective therpeutic were approved, the vaccines would have to be pulled in (at least) the U.S.. i believe part of the EUA stipulates that the vaccines can only be used if there is no approved effective therapeutic, of course if the FDA gave the vaccines full approval, this would be a moot point
                I'm no expert on the approval process, but given the vaccines' head start, I have trouble believing any therapeutic which is in early stage testing right now would get full approval before the vaccines.
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                • Originally posted by ace in the hazard View Post

                  I'm no expert on the approval process, but given the vaccines' head start, I have trouble believing any therapeutic which is in early stage testing right now would get full approval before the vaccines.
                  ‘Zactly this.

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                  • Originally posted by ace in the hazard View Post

                    I'm no expert on the approval process, but given the vaccines' head start, I have trouble believing any therapeutic which is in early stage testing right now would get full approval before the vaccines.
                    Just to add something...

                    There are so many exceptions under the "No Alternatives" clause, that even if a 100% effective therapeutic were found, the EUA would probably not be pulled by the FDA very quickly, if at all. The EUA does not automatically become void without a review by HHS.

                    From the FDA guidance sheet on EUAs:

                    For FDA to issue an EUA, there must be no adequate, approved, and available alternative to the candidate product for diagnosing, preventing, or treating the disease or condition. A potential alternative product may be considered “unavailable” if there are insufficient supplies of the approved alternative to fully meet the emergency need. A potential alternative product may be considered "inadequate" if, for example, there are contraindicating data for special circumstances or populations (e.g., children, immunocompromised individuals, or individuals with a drug allergy), if a dosage form of an approved product is inappropriate for use in a special population (e.g., a tablet for individuals who cannot swallow pills), or if the agent is or may be resistant to approved and available alternative products.
                    As an example, if the Pfizer vaccine were to receive full approval, the EUAs for the other vaccines would not automatically expire, and would NOT likely be yanked simply because the Pfizer vaccine received full approval.


                    The FDA guidance sheet is here: https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-infor...ed-authorities


                    The applicable statutes are here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/360bbb-3
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                    • Just leaving this here below with the comment, if you are unvaccinated you should take it upon yourself to never enter any LTC home or any indoor location where vaccinated seniors who still carry a higher level of risk due to naturally less robust immune systems are trying to not die from your stupidity. If you work with seniors in any way and refuse to get vaccinated then you should quit your job. Same goes if you work with or interact in any way with immuno-compromised people, do the right thing and remove yourself for the rest of your life from those interactions. If you still have living grandparents tell them that they will never talk to you again except on Zoom or similiar.

                      https://apnews.com/article/business-...adfb668ae32bb0

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                      • Originally posted by pendlebg View Post
                        Just leaving this here below with the comment, if you are unvaccinated you should take it upon yourself to never enter any LTC home or any indoor location where vaccinated seniors who still carry a higher level of risk due to naturally less robust immune systems are trying to not die from your stupidity. If you work with seniors in any way and refuse to get vaccinated then you should quit your job. Same goes if you work with or interact in any way with immuno-compromised people, do the right thing and remove yourself for the rest of your life from those interactions. If you still have living grandparents tell them that they will never talk to you again except on Zoom or similiar.

                        https://apnews.com/article/business-...adfb668ae32bb0
                        You’ve gone full blown crazy, consider changing your handle to pendlemania.

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                        • Originally posted by WWFS View Post

                          Just to add something...

                          There are so many exceptions under the "No Alternatives" clause, that even if a 100% effective therapeutic were found, the EUA would probably not be pulled by the FDA very quickly, if at all. The EUA does not automatically become void without a review by HHS.

                          From the FDA guidance sheet on EUAs:



                          As an example, if the Pfizer vaccine were to receive full approval, the EUAs for the other vaccines would not automatically expire, and would NOT likely be yanked simply because the Pfizer vaccine received full approval.


                          The FDA guidance sheet is here: https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-infor...ed-authorities


                          The applicable statutes are here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/21/360bbb-3
                          thank you for the extra info. as i said, no expert myself, but the entire argument stunk of antivaxxers/"vaccine hesitant" claiming a conspiracy theory against therapeutics.
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                          • Originally posted by ace in the hazard View Post

                            thank you for the extra info. as i said, no expert myself, but the entire argument stunk of antivaxxers/"vaccine hesitant" claiming a conspiracy theory against therapeutics.
                            Won't take the vaccine because I don't know what is in it . . . but will take the pills/vitamins even if I don't know what is in it.

                            One of my friend won't take the vaccine . . . but has put all kind of crap in his body for the last 35 years . . .
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                            • Originally posted by Chambokl View Post

                              Won't take the vaccine because I don't know what is in it . . . but will take the pills/vitamins even if I don't know what is in it.

                              One of my friend won't take the vaccine . . . but has put all kind of crap in his body for the last 35 years . . .
                              You're right,, many vaccine hesitant have been putting stuff in their bodies for years without knowing or caring what's in it. The difference is when you feel forced to take something then you may start to question what's in it, especially when there are reports on the news of blood clots and deaths and other side effects. Furthermore, not everyone feels covid is dangerous to them (rightly or wrongly) so taking an experimental substance with known, albeit rare side effects is a scary proposition. Based on what has happened during this pandemic, a lot of fear has been created and we are all traumatized to some degree and this has led most of us to seek protection from the vaccine but not everyone has this experience and it's understandable in my opinion. If I was young and healthy, I'd question the vaccine too. I'd probably still take it but who knows. I think everyone should have the right to choose what goes in their bodies and who am I to judge someone, especially if there is a health risk involved.

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                              • Originally posted by Golfninja View Post

                                Furthermore, not everyone feels covid is dangerous to them (rightly or wrongly) so taking an experimental substance with known, albeit rare side effects is a scary proposition.
                                And yet it's the anti-vax contingent that continually accuses everyone else of being scared. Hilarious.

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