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  • Lockdown

    I'm pretty sure that everyone was a lot more on board with the lockdown as a Covid response to the first wave. I'm not so sure that I or anyone else has the same enthusiasm for the lockdown approach now. There seems to be a lot of news reporting now regarding the lack of restrictions to international travel. It seems to me that it's a major loop hole. Last Spring, it seemed to me that the Federal government was more concerned with stigmatizing certain races, than battling the spread of the virus. Even our health ministers were more concerned with racism than saving lives.

    Taiwan locked down their country to travel right off the bat, and to this day they've had less than 10 deaths attributed to the virus. The approach we've taken is like closing all the windows but leaving the front door wide open. Doug Ford is finally speaking out about all of this, but should have been concerned about this a long time ago.

    At this point, I think it would be more prudent to lock the country down to travel and allow businesses to open with restrictions. I'm all for co-operating with what the government is mandating to deal with this virus, but we need confidence that it will work.

    As a golfer like the lot of us, I was glad that the golf course opened up this year. Not sure why they've shut down the ski industry. I'm not a skier, but with the right precautions in place, the ski hills really should be allowed to open up right now.

    I'll cut if off here, as I could go on. Really hope things get under control soon. Would really like to have confidence in the government restrictions and the vaccines. Here's to a better year in 2021.
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  • #2
    This lockdown is still less severe than spring. It might still be a bit over the top though.

    I too would like much better border controls in terms of screening and mandatory quarantines at designated places.

    Golf courses were an easy open. I was reminded by a story I read today that many European outbreaks in spring were in fact directly from spread at ski resorts. Too much time spent in proximity. I wish people could play hockey. I need people to play hockey and use my product to survive. We’ve held out OK so far but there could be tough times yet.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Marty Canuck View Post
      This lockdown is still less severe than spring. It might still be a bit over the top though.

      I too would like much better border controls in terms of screening and mandatory quarantines at designated places.

      Golf courses were an easy open. I was reminded by a story I read today that many European outbreaks in spring were in fact directly from spread at ski resorts. Too much time spent in proximity. I wish people could play hockey. I need people to play hockey and use my product to survive. We’ve held out OK so far but there could be tough times yet.
      Will the NHL opening help, hope so for you and your business.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by threeputt View Post

        Will the NHL opening help, hope so for you and your business.
        A little but they don’t use enough to keep the doors open over an extended period. 32 x 22 players in the NHL. They play and use more than most but still pales to millions of hockey players from minor hockey to minor pro.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 73monte View Post
          Taiwan locked down their country to travel right off the bat, and to this day they've had less than 10 deaths attributed to the virus. The approach we've taken is like closing all the windows but leaving the front door wide open. Doug Ford is finally speaking out about all of this, but should have been concerned about this a long time ago.
          There was more to the success of Taiwan than just locking down travel to the country.

          1. Taiwan had a pandemic strategy already planned for the longest time since SARS as they were one of the countries heavily affected by it. This strategy had plans in place for a task force, medical organization, planned quarantine areas, the manufactures of mask for everyone and how to deal with the public.

          2. Taiwan has a HUGE DISTRUST with China and it is one of the biggest reason for having the pandemic strategy in the first place. When Covid was first reported the Taiwanese authorizes sent their own observers to China to see first hand what was going on. When they saw that what they observe was not what the Chinese were reporting they immediately shut their borders to China.

          3. Taiwanese in general accepts the use of mask wearing. There had been many other incidents of virus scares since SARS so mask had already been a common sight to see whenever one comes around. Plus most use them for when they scooter which many in the country do for transportation.

          4. There is an over arching policies and rules with regards to the pandemic that covers the whole country. Yet here we have different rules depending on which province you live in and which region. Here in Canada, if you don't like the rule where you live you can just go somewhere else in the country where those rules don't apply.

          Just saying.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 73monte View Post
            Doug Ford is finally speaking out about all of this, but should have been concerned about this a long time ago.
            He is trying to raise a stink to distract from other things (his failings maybe?). While it is something that we've wondered about for a while, not much of the contact tracing has lead them back to international travel being a major concern, not even a minor one. 570 Am over this way has good interviews with various people (immunologists, virologists, etc) on and they've said the same, that tracing back, it was less than 1% of cases were from people traveling from abroad. personal opinion, still pretty dumb to be doing.

            So while Doogie is huffing and puffing, that's all he's ever been. No different than the zone colour coding and lack of leadership wtr to the schools, he does what he wants and isn't really listening to anyone.

            Just a few short months and he will be heading back up to the cottage to check on the water lines...
            Last edited by Gwelfgulfer; Dec 30, 2020, 01:53 AM.

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            • #7
              I think I hear the airport rats chortling," Wait, there's more". lol
              things change

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              • #8
                Originally posted by jefflin View Post

                There was more to the success of Taiwan than just locking down travel to the country.

                1. Taiwan had a pandemic strategy already planned for the longest time since SARS as they were one of the countries heavily affected by it. This strategy had plans in place for a task force, medical organization, planned quarantine areas, the manufactures of mask for everyone and how to deal with the public.

                2. Taiwan has a HUGE DISTRUST with China and it is one of the biggest reason for having the pandemic strategy in the first place. When Covid was first reported the Taiwanese authorizes sent their own observers to China to see first hand what was going on. When they saw that what they observe was not what the Chinese were reporting they immediately shut their borders to China.

                3. Taiwanese in general accepts the use of mask wearing. There had been many other incidents of virus scares since SARS so mask had already been a common sight to see whenever one comes around. Plus most use them for when they scooter which many in the country do for transportation.

                4. There is an over arching policies and rules with regards to the pandemic that covers the whole country. Yet here we have different rules depending on which province you live in and which region. Here in Canada, if you don't like the rule where you live you can just go somewhere else in the country where those rules don't apply.

                Just saying.
                Thanks for enlightening. Didn't realize that Taiwan had so much more emphasis on pandemic preparedness. I'm still of the opinion though that closing the borders does play a significant role, even if it's effectiveness is downplayed.
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                • #9
                  I also remember a news story explaining their medical records database as part of their public healthcare system. Contact tracing became very easy to do. I suspect North Americans (perhaps US more so than Canada) would have reservations over privacy

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                  • #10
                    Do not get me wrong, if the rule on international travel were to be tightened you will not find me complaining. But.....the numbers in Ontario for a long time have shown the impact of travel related infections is almost nil, for the last while hovering around 1% of our totals. Ford is blustering about international travel when it has really no impact on how COVID is spreading in Ontario.

                    So, by all means lock it down more but do not expect it to make any material difference in spread in Ontario. This is a pure political ploy and it is meant to distract.

                    The very real failures that are made in Ontario revolve around lack of contact tracing, lack of protection for low wage workers, lack of health policy and enforcement in workplaces, lack of investment in quarantine centres, and overall lack of guts by our provincial government. Closing up International travel is at best a drop in the bucket, but to be fair is still at least a drop.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 73monte View Post

                      Thanks for enlightening. Didn't realize that Taiwan had so much more emphasis on pandemic preparedness. I'm still of the opinion though that closing the borders does play a significant role, even if it's effectiveness is downplayed.
                      They have very strict quarantine protocols as well. I believe they put people that test positive into "quarantine hotels" to reduce spread. I posted a story about a guy that was fined $3500 when he was caught on video stepping into the hallway outside his room for just 8 seconds. I think Australia, New Zealand also run quarantine hotels to remove people that have been infected.

                      Now that's a lockdown.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 73monte View Post

                        Thanks for enlightening. Didn't realize that Taiwan had so much more emphasis on pandemic preparedness. I'm still of the opinion though that closing the borders does play a significant role, even if it's effectiveness is downplayed.
                        ^^^ EXACTLY, and that's how non action allowed the variant to get here as well. Hard to believe the number of accounts we see of so many on what appears to be unessential travel, and then no mandatory testing on entry or reentry, perfect recipe for disaster..
                        plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pendlebg View Post
                          Do not get me wrong, if the rule on international travel were to be tightened you will not find me complaining. But.....the numbers in Ontario for a long time have shown the impact of travel related infections is almost nil, for the last while hovering around 1% of our totals. Ford is blustering about international travel when it has really no impact on how COVID is spreading in Ontario.

                          So, by all means lock it down more but do not expect it to make any material difference in spread in Ontario. This is a pure political ploy and it is meant to distract.

                          The very real failures that are made in Ontario revolve around lack of contact tracing, lack of protection for low wage workers, lack of health policy and enforcement in workplaces, lack of investment in quarantine centres, and overall lack of guts by our provincial government. Closing up International travel is at best a drop in the bucket, but to be fair is still at least a drop.
                          A plane with a capacity of 283 landed in Dublin with 49 passengers. 13 contracted COVID.
                          I remain unconvinced that air travel is safe.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bern View Post

                            A plane with a capacity of 283 landed in Dublin with 49 passengers. 13 contracted COVID.
                            I remain unconvinced that air travel is safe.
                            Where did this plane originate from?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bosco View Post

                              Where did this plane originate from?
                              And was it established that the plane was the source of transmission
                              "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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