2022-2023 Blue Jays

[Arthur Dailey]

Blue Jays have decided to start Clement and Lukes tonight, giving KK the night off.
I don’t get it. Why do this against against a team in your division when a win would be a big deal?
Am I missing something? I thought KK has been hitting well lately. Maybe he’s hurt or under the weather?

A tough left hander starting for Tampa.
And as others have noted, load management. The turf in Tampa is probably the worst in all of MLB.

Varsha appeared in 31 games behind the plate last season and 41 the season prior. From all reports he is an adequate back-up MLB catcher. He is however much better defensively in the outfield. Just hope that his 'bat comes around'.

[mpare]

I've played a lot of ball, but I'm certainly no expert in analyzing the game or its players, so I look to our in-house experts to answer this question: Should Alex Manoah continue pitching for the team as a starter or would he and the team be better served were he to be sent down to Buffalo to sort out his mechanics and, possibly, confidence issues? Yesterday was another disasterous start, though some shabby play behind him didn't help. At the rate he's going, I can't see his confidence improving, if he remains in the starting rotation. Worse, he's not helping the team.

[Pingeye2_fan]

I've played a lot of ball, but I'm certainly no expert in analyzing the game or its players, so I look to our in-house experts to answer this question: Should Alex Manoah continue pitching for the team as a starter or would he and the team be better served were he to be sent down to Buffalo to sort out his mechanics and, possibly, confidence issues? Yesterday was another disasterous start, though some shabby play behind him didn't help. At the rate he's going, I can't see his confidence improving, if he remains in the starting rotation. Worse, he's not helping the team.

I heard something on the radio or TV broadcast that when Manoah left the dugout Pete Walker left right after him and was not on the bench for quite awhile.
Maybe he was trying to settle him down possibly.

“Here is where Alek Manoah ranks among the 72 qualified MLB starters:

• 5.53 ERA (5th-worst)
• 1.79 WHIP (worst)
• 6.37 BB/9 (worst)
• 19.08 pitches/IP (worst)“

@keeganmatheson

[Gridiron]

I've played a lot of ball, but I'm certainly no expert in analyzing the game or its players, so I look to our in-house experts to answer this question: Should Alex Manoah continue pitching for the team as a starter or would he and the team be better served were he to be sent down to Buffalo to sort out his mechanics and, possibly, confidence issues? Yesterday was another disasterous start, though some shabby play behind him didn't help. At the rate he's going, I can't see his confidence improving, if he remains in the starting rotation. Worse, he's not helping the team.

He would be better served by going down. Unfortunately they don't have anyone who they can bring up. White, Tiedemann and Ryu are all injured. Depth pieces Lawrence, Hutchison and Thompson all have ERA's above 5 or 6 in AAA. Zulueta doesn't look ready with 20 walks in 24 innings. Thornton has been exclusively out of the pen. I think he just has to carry on as he is the best option they have at this time. Maybe 50% of his starts are decent until he gets back on track. Perhaps they stretch Pearson out but that seems like a "someone got injured" scenario not a "let's send this guy down to sort things out" kind of plan.

The "waves and waves" of prospects Atkins and Shapiro spoke of years back have not materialized. This team has zero depth (less than zero as it can't really complete a major league roster). Our minor league team can't even replace an injured Espinal instead needing Ernie Clement and his career .206 BA and -0.7 WAR.

All this and nothing really bad has happened to this team yet. Imagine if the Jays were the Yankees and down 3-4 starters. The roster construction has been appalling poor.

[Arthur Dailey]

I've played a lot of ball, but I'm certainly no expert in analyzing the game or its players, so I look to our in-house experts to answer this question: Should Alex Manoah continue pitching for the team as a starter or would he and the team be better served were he to be sent down to Buffalo to sort out his mechanics and, possibly, confidence issues? Yesterday was another disasterous start, though some shabby play behind him didn't help. At the rate he's going, I can't see his confidence improving, if he remains in the starting rotation. Worse, he's not helping the team.

I assume that you are referencing what the Jays did with Roy Halladay when they sent him down to rebuild his delivery and he returned as a future HOF pitcher.

That is tough question.

Does Manoah have the same methodical, dedicated personality/make-up as Doc?

I wonder if with Manoah, Kirk and Vladdy the issue might be a lack of commitment to hard, off-season training?

As per the posting above, Shapiro and Atkins promised to rebuild the farm system and create an organization that would be competitive every season.
Instead at AAA there are mostly 'retreads' in the starting rotation. The 'prospect cupboard' is not as they promised.

Now in the 8th year with Shapiro in charge, compare his record during that time period to the record of AA.
It seems readily apparent that Rogers once again made the wrong decision for Toronto sports fans/their customers.

[ninja]

The "waves and waves" of prospects Atkins and Shapiro spoke of years back have not materialized. This team has zero depth (less than zero as it can't really complete a major league roster). Our minor league team can't even replace an injured Espinal instead needing Ernie Clement and his career .206 BA and -0.7 WAR..

Just for fun & my own curiosity, I checked the Indians/Guardians record for 6 seasons with Atkins/Shapiro & the 6 seasons after they departed...
With - 79 wins (.488)
Without - 92 wins (.568)

Two winning seasons with & five without... I don't think the organization is missing them.


Manoah definitely needs a few starts in the minors to work things out but the Jays can't afford to fall any further back with the way the division is rolling along. His sulking around the mound & on field tantrums are getting old. If he's taking it into the dugout then that's an even larger problem.

[High cut]

I've played a lot of ball, but I'm certainly no expert in analyzing the game or its players, so I look to our in-house experts to answer this question: Should Alex Manoah continue pitching for the team as a starter or would he and the team be better served were he to be sent down to Buffalo to sort out his mechanics and, possibly, confidence issues? Yesterday was another disasterous start, though some shabby play behind him didn't help. At the rate he's going, I can't see his confidence improving, if he remains in the starting rotation. Worse, he's not helping the team.

I don"t pretend to know the answer, seems like more of a question for a shrink.

What if he goes down and can"t get anyone out?

[Pingeye2_fan]

I don"t pretend to know the answer, seems like more of a question for a shrink.

What if he goes down and can"t get anyone out?

Makes me think of Ricky Romero's struggles.

[High cut]

Makes me think of Ricky Romero's struggles.

That was half of my thought.

Doc or RR?

[Gridiron]

Makes me think of Ricky Romero's struggles.

RR’s problems were physical (knee). No one has mentioned such things with AM.

[Pingeye2_fan]

RR’s problems were physical (knee). No one has mentioned such things with AM.

I’ve head him on the radio quite a bit, it was more than a knee, there was some mental stuff as well.

[Pingeye2_fan]

“Dating back 9 months, Bo Bichette ranks 2nd in MLB in Wins Above Replacement

Wins Above Replacement
Last 9 Months

Aaron Judge 5.7
Bo Bichette 4.9
Mike Trout 4.2

>Bichette: .351 avg, 17 hr, 60 rbi, .952 OPS in 90 gp

This isn't a blip. This isn't unsustainable. He's a superstar.”
@downtoblack

[Arthur Dailey]

When Mark Shapiro was hired by the Jays he listed among his priorities creating a farm/development system that would consistently provide a flow of talent.
Well on the current roster, Kirk, Bichette, Manoah, Pearson were drafted or signed as amateurs by Shapiro.
Jansen, Guerrero, Biggio, Mayza and Romano were drafted or signed by AA.
That is the current production from the farm system.

However another of Shapiro's stated priorities was to 'improve' the 'experience at the Skydome/Rogers Centre.
Well he finally has accomplished that. And what is the result for ticket holders/Jays fans?
Well it appears that the Board/shareholders of Rogers may be quite happy with his performance.

From the Toronto Star on May 21, 2023, by Gilbert Ngabo

Last fall, when they renewed their seats for the 46th time, the final numbers came in at $15,000 for the pair of tickets, or $7,500 per seat for a total of 81 games. That works out to an average of $92.59 for each seat, per game.

After following up with their Jays account representative, Gamester was told the cost of seats under the Jays’ new reconfigured Home Plate Club section could be up to $68,500 per seat — $137,000 for a pair. The Jays are using a tiered pricing system for seats within the reconfigured sections; for Home Plate Club, which is being expanded to five rows, the cheapest one is $39,500. Gamester’s current seats, according to the Jays, would fall within that area.

For the cheapest option that works out to $487.65, or $975.30 for two seats. The most expensive option would $845.68 per ticket for each game, or $1,691.36 for the pair. The actual prices of each seat in the new section are unknown.

He said they were also told the team would need at least a three-year commitment up front from season-ticket holders, which hadn’t been required before.

Sharon, an Oshawa woman who didn’t want to give her last name, said her family has shared the cost of a pair of tickets in Row 21 behind the Jays dugout with three other families for the past 20 years. They paid nearly $12,000 to renew this season.

For similar seats after the planned revamp, she said they’ve been told the cost would be around $40,000. She would have been fine moving five or six rows back for the current price, but said that seems unlikely.

The team says a major part of the next phase of renovations will be the introduction of three premium clubs that will be connected to the best seats at the ballpark and offer a variety of entertainment and services to fans.

Located directly behind home plate, those clubs will offer members a separate entrance to the stadium, have their own sports bars and provide in-seat dining options, among other things.

“The entire 100-level seating is being reimagined with new seating, and as a result all season-ticket members will have an opportunity to choose new seats from a variety of different pricing and location options,” the Jays said in a statement to the Star.

[mpare]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that these kinds of outrageous prices for season ticket holders are only sustainable over the long haul if, and only if, the Jays play competitive ball. Whether they can do so remains to be seen.

When Mark Shapiro was hired by the Jays he listed among his priorities creating a farm/development system that would consistently provide a flow of talent.
Well on the current roster, Kirk, Bichette, Manoah, Pearson were drafted or signed as amateurs by Shapiro.
Jansen, Guerrero, Biggio, Mayza and Romano were drafted or signed by AA.
That is the current production from the farm system.

However another of Shapiro's stated priorities was to 'improve' the 'experience at the Skydome/Rogers Centre.
Well he finally has accomplished that. And what is the result for ticket holders/Jays fans?
Well it appears that the Board/shareholders of Rogers may be quite happy with his performance.

From the Toronto Star on May 21, 2023, by Gilbert Ngabo

[jimfastcar]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that these kinds of outrageous prices for season ticket holders are only sustainable over the long haul if, and only if, the Jays play competitive ball. Whether they can do so remains to be seen.

The Leafs disprove that logic I am afraid