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Kuch controversy - Thoughts?

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  • Originally posted by Bern View Post

    So that is why exceeding expectations was important, not just meeting them.
    Most people will forget this fairly soon, others will eventually and a few will hold a grudge forever even if Kuch paid up $130k. As long as the caddie is now feeling completely happy and adequately compensated Kuch will be fine.
    "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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    • Originally posted by Weirfan View Post

      Most people will forget this fairly soon, others will eventually and a few will hold a grudge forever even if Kuch paid up $130k. As long as the caddie is now feeling completely happy and adequately compensated Kuch will be fine.
      I disagree it's not about the caddie now, this has already cost Kuchar more than 130K in bad press and will cost him more going forward.

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      • Interesting development, Kuch's offer to ante up another 50k. Will be watching the tourney this year and see what's become of Kuch's rep and El tucan.

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        • Originally posted by bogey5 View Post

          Sure he can. This will pass.

          He's just got to ask his buds Phil and Tiger how to ride it out.
          I could be wrong but I don’t think Kuchar is in the same league as Tiger or Phil. Add in that he is on the downside of his career (age wise) and I think it will be much more difficult for him to recover the goodwill that he squandered

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          • Originally posted by Weirfan View Post

            I don't recall making a comment related to how good or bad Steinberg handled this situation, only that he has handled difficult matters before for Tiger and and has a rock solid reputation , and posted an article to support that in response to the article you posted that said otherwise, and to say that the only people that matter how he handles things are his clients.

            What you think about it has zero value or relevance.
            Well, you did say he was “in good hands”. Did I misinterpret?
            TGN is a useful microcosm for how the world thinks. It may not matter one whit what I think but to the extent that I represent the average golfer it should matter greatly to Matt Kuchar. That it doesn’t is on Matt and the dreadful advice he is receiving.

            Want a pair of Sketchers?

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            • Originally posted by bcampb00 View Post

              Well, you did say he was “in good hands”.
              historically speaking and confirmed by the article I posted , yes Steinberg has a good history and track record so Kuch should be in good hands. I don't like him, but doesn't matter what I think.

              I didn't comment as to how he was managing this situation.....I did/do think his short response to Ortiz while on vacation was terse but don't believe I said that anywhere
              ( mentioned later he might not have written it)
              Last edited by Weirfan; Feb 15, 2019, 09:08 PM.
              "Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it happened "

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              • Originally posted by bcampb00 View Post

                I could be wrong but I don’t think Kuchar is in the same league as Tiger or Phil. Add in that he is on the downside of his career (age wise) and I think it will be much more difficult for him to recover the goodwill that he squandered
                We finally agree on something! Kuchar makes 5 million in endorsements a year, when this became an issue it was a no brainer to say it was a mistake and compensate the caddie for an undisclosed amount. That didn't happen and when push came to shove Kuchar publicly defended his actions. Then many pros, caddies and sports columnists disagreed vehemently. The $125,000 Kuchar saved represents less than 2.5% of Kuchar's endorsements in one year. If this incident has impacted Kuchar's brand by a few percent, which it undoubtedly has, he will lose hundreds of thousands of dollars over a few years.

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                • Guys cheap if he had of just given the guy a good amount this would never have happened. Now I hope he pays the price for it. Lesson should be learned by all don’t be a scum bag to other human beings

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                  • Haven't read all 312 posts. But if I were Matt I would do the following:

                    1. get a new agent. If he were doing his job properly this story should have been a fairy tale feel-good story of the two amigos, embracing with the US and Mexico flags flapping in the background. Instead it needlessly devolved into this horrific nightmare tale that has irrevocably tarnished Matt's brand image for the remainder of his golf career.

                    2. Call the caddie, apologize sincerely and assure him that he will receive compensation that is more commensurate with his contribution to the win - don't tell him the amount.

                    3. E-transfer him $130,000 (or whatever 10% bonus + base compensation amounts to). Kuchar should have done this from the start. An agent that couldn't see this brand image strategy would not be my agent.

                    Kuchar's initial public statement on this matter, sadly, does indeed reflect who he is and what he represents, in my opinion. He came to his PR senses too late and too little.
                    Last edited by ecgr2035; Feb 16, 2019, 01:00 AM.

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                    • Originally posted by bl8d View Post
                      I noticed none here felt so strongly aggrieved that they actually wanted to put their money where there mouth is and start a Go-Caddie fund for Ortiz.
                      Sorry, but that was a stupid idea.

                      Why on earth would I and others (effectively) donate to Kuch to help him pay his bills. The guy has made something like $US70 million and stiffed his caddie.

                      I haven't made nearly that much money, and I'm not the one who should be paying for services Kuch received.

                      "Confusion" will be my epitaph
                      ...Iggy

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                      • Originally posted by pudubny View Post
                        Interesting development, Kuch's offer to ante up another 50k. Will be watching the tourney this year and see what's become of Kuch's rep and El tucan.
                        With the free press Mayakoba gets from this fiasco, they should be paying the caddie.

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                        • Originally posted by Weirfan View Post

                          Most people will forget this fairly soon, others will eventually and a few will hold a grudge forever even if Kuch paid up $130k. As long as the caddie is now feeling completely happy and adequately compensated Kuch will be fine.
                          I agree. This will blow over.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tphilp View Post
                            Guys cheap if he had of just given the guy a good amount this would never have happened. Now I hope he pays the price for it. Lesson should be learned by all don’t be a scum bag to other human beings
                            So, when a premiere Tour player agrees to take a chance on a club-level caddy and comes to clear terms about payment prior to the start of the event and then honours those terms, he's "cheap"?

                            If you're being so hard on Kuchar, then what do you have to say about the shakedown artist pretending to be a caddie? He agreed to terms, then later started whining when he thought he deserved more. Well, if he thought he deserved more, he should have held out for more before the event started. A deal is a deal, unless you're a club-level caddy who carries a bag for a Tour-level player.

                            Comment


                            • Maybe Fake News going around.....

                              KucharGate has come to a close.

                              Matt Kuchar, by all accounts the nicest guy on the PGA Tour, found himself in one hell of a mess over the last few weeks when news surfaced that he’d only paid David Ortiz, his fill-in caddy, a fraction of the usual fee after a victory at the Mayakoba Classic in November. Friday at the Genesis Open, Kuchar, who’d come under withering criticism for the move and subsequent statements, apologized and vowed to pay the caddy in full.

                              “I let myself, my family, my partners and those close to me down, but I also let David down,” Kuchar said in a statement. “I plan to call David [Friday night] when I’m off the course to apologize for the situation he has been put in, and I have made sure he has received the full total that he has requested.”
                              Resolve to be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant with the weak and wrong, because sometime in your life, you will have been all of these. Dr. Robert H. Goddard




                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Benz View Post

                                So, when a premiere Tour player agrees to take a chance on a club-level caddy and comes to clear terms about payment prior to the start of the event and then honours those terms, he's "cheap"?

                                If you're being so hard on Kuchar, then what do you have to say about the shakedown artist pretending to be a caddie? He agreed to terms, then later started whining when he thought he deserved more. Well, if he thought he deserved more, he should have held out for more before the event started. A deal is a deal, unless you're a club-level caddy who carries a bag for a Tour-level player.
                                How to paint a completely incorrect picture.

                                Let's first get it right, this was a lightning in a bottle situation and a number of things happened. Kuch played the Tournament as a lark (probably a family vacation) and his Caddie had made plans for that week off.

                                Kuchar got an experienced caddie, knowledgeable as to the course conditions & who'd caddied professionals before.

                                Caddies pay scale while not in ink, there is a standard that one should honour. If Kuch had someone else's PGA caddie he would have paid the full amount (even if a one week fill in). He made a deal, never expecting a win, with a caddie not knowing what is the expected norm.

                                There have been precedents where non-pga caddies filled in and were paid very fairly.

                                He paid his caddie a fair amount to carry the bag if he missed the cut ($1,000). Heck $2,000 if he played 4 rounds & finished 50th was too inline with the "industry norm". Then he went off the rails. $3,000 total for a top 20 (20th paid $106,000 so 5% x $106,000 = $5,300) so now it is 2.83%. 10th paid $165,000 x 7% = $11,550 and now Kuch says they agreed to $4,000 so that is only 2.42%. 5th paid $288,000 x 7% = $20,160 or $4,000/$288,0000 = 1.39% and then comes the win & Kuch throws in the $1,000 tip and it is $5,000 vs. $129,000 a regular would get or .38%.

                                No what happened was Kuch was caught for ripping off an unsuspecting caddie and caught. Kuch knows the norm, proper etiquette and what was expected but decided he would pocket the difference and was brought to the carpet.

                                I will 100% agree Kuch never expected to win and didn't think of it at all when he discussed payments with Ortiz.

                                He full well knew when he won and even then may not have thought about it too much (sure his regular caddie did and probably was grumbling about it too).

                                January 12th he was outed and didn't care too much (and that was the time to make it right) then either.

                                The emails to Steinberg didn't bother them too much either. until he was publicly pillared and deserves all the flack he has received.

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