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  • #76
    Originally posted by Kentucky Blue Balls View Post

    I can put an issue here that even anyone who agrees with diversity hiring (even in the private sector), and anti bias training should be able to see.


    When do we know to stop?
    How do we stop?

    If the goal is equality then how do we know when we've reached equality, and how do we know when to stop all this before it becomes a problem the other way?
    Well that's why we have Stats Can.

    The answer to why increasing diversity is important is here.

    https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...657-eng.htm#a3

    I would encourage you to read how Visible minorities under-represented.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Bern View Post

      Well that's why we have Stats Can.

      The answer to why increasing diversity is important is here.

      https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...657-eng.htm#a3

      I would encourage you to read how Visible minorities under-represented.
      Seems (from that report) like visible minorities are under-represented in the military because they don’t want to work there. Why push on a string?

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by bcampb00 View Post

        Seems (from that report) like visible minorities are under-represented in the military because they don’t want to work there. Why push on a string?
        https://calgaryjournal.ca/news/3164-...ed-forces.html

        "In fact, research done by Ipsos Reid on visible minorities recruitment and the Canadian Forces in 2012, proves that many ethnic minorities do not see the military as a top career choice.

        One of the key findings was that, “The Canadian forces are not a top-of-mind career option for most Asian and Arab Canadians. When asked what careers they would be interested in pursuing, or would recommend to a young person, no more than one percent of Asian and Arab Canadian youth or community indicated the military as their preference.”
        "

        So the military is trying to change an identified problem that has roots in discrimination.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Bern View Post

          Well that's why we have Stats Can.

          The answer to why increasing diversity is important is here.

          https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...657-eng.htm#a3

          I would encourage you to read how Visible minorities under-represented.

          So when things equal out this behaviour is supposed to just stop, like flipping off a switch?

          https://youtu.be/5KeA_7ouClQ
          Last edited by Kentucky Blue Balls; Sep 20, 2020, 10:14 AM.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Bern View Post

            https://calgaryjournal.ca/news/3164-...ed-forces.html

            "In fact, research done by Ipsos Reid on visible minorities recruitment and the Canadian Forces in 2012, proves that many ethnic minorities do not see the military as a top career choice.

            One of the key findings was that, “The Canadian forces are not a top-of-mind career option for most Asian and Arab Canadians. When asked what careers they would be interested in pursuing, or would recommend to a young person, no more than one percent of Asian and Arab Canadian youth or community indicated the military as their preference.”
            "

            So the military is trying to change an identified problem that has roots in discrimination.
            Nothing here proves systemic racism exists or is such a problem that society needs to be dismantled. The article gives a few factors to why visible minorities are underrepresented. Discrimination is one.

            If you think hiring people based on skin colour and not competence is good, how incompetent do things have to get before you realize it's a bad idea?

            ​​​

            Comment


            • #81
              Your assumption that competence is waived in such a competition is unwarranted.

              Originally posted by Kentucky Blue Balls View Post
              ...
              If you think hiring people based on skin colour and not competence is good, how incompetent do things have to get before you realize it's a bad idea?

              ​​​
              This isn't a dress rehearsal. Enjoy yourself. There's no do-over.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by mpare View Post
                Your assumption that competence is waived in such a competition is unwarranted.

                ​​​​​​I'm not saying that you won't end up with a competent individual, but if you exclude an entire race from even being able to apply then eventually this could spiral out of control. Especially if it's ideological.

                There are some positions where this type of hiring should never even be considered.

                Comment


                • #83
                  I don’t believe that there is any reason to think that this strategy will generate the same inequity that historically excluded members of disadvantaged groups from positions of influence and power, which is exactly the problem that will hopefully be redressed by affirmative action.

                  Originally posted by Kentucky Blue Balls View Post


                  ​​​​​​I'm not saying that you won't end up with a competent individual, but if you exclude an entire race from even being able to apply then eventually this could spiral out of control. Especially if it's ideological.

                  There are some positions where this type of hiring should never even be considered.
                  This isn't a dress rehearsal. Enjoy yourself. There's no do-over.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by mpare View Post
                    I don’t believe that there is any reason to think that this strategy will generate the same inequity that historically excluded members of disadvantaged groups from positions of influence and power, which is exactly the problem that will hopefully be redressed by affirmative action.
                    Your own lack of certainty should hopefully give some clarity to why I'm so opposed to teaching this stuff to children.

                    Honestly I don't think it will generate the same inequity either, but that's not my problem. My problem is were teaching critical race theory in schools to children who believe in Santa clause.

                    1) theory explicitly states it only applies to US
                    2) it's only a theory, not a fact.

                    My problem is radical activists running the teachers union who take things too far. The problem I'm seeing with people who agree with affirmative action, and critical race theory, is they don't even think it can be taken too far. Yes teachers, principal's, and superintendents think everything about it is perfect. Which is f.uck ing scary. They also think it's their duty to fix these kids.

                    ​​​​​​Again back to my two questions.

                    Even if you're someone agrees with all of this, how exactly do we measure equality so we know when things become equal?

                    How do we stop once things do become equal, especially when schools are teaching that domestic terrorism tactics are acceptable?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      The Oxford Research Encyclopedias explains critical race theory in the following manner:

                      "Critical Race Theory (CRT) is a framework that offers researchers, practitioners, and policy-makers a race-conscious approach to understanding educational inequality and structural racism to find solutions that lead to greater justice. Placing race at the center of analysis, Critical Race Theory scholars interrogate policies and practices that are taken for granted to uncover the overt and covert ways that racist ideologies, structures, and institutions create and maintain racial inequality."

                      If they're correct, then I fail to see how making students aware of such issues is 1) uniquely applicable to the USA, and 2) how it is pernicious. Racism and racial inequality are facts. There may be any number of theories with respect to how these inequities arise and are perpetuated, but the existence of different theoretical models cannot be used to conclude that discrimination and racism do not exist. For my part, I'm glad that schools are making students aware of, and sensitive to, those realities. That is not an insidious way of "fixing" kids. It simply helps make them better citizens by ensuring that they aren't blind to the realities that far too many fellow Canadians face because of, among other things, the circumstances of their births.

                      Originally posted by Kentucky Blue Balls View Post

                      Your own lack of certainty should hopefully give some clarity to why I'm so opposed to teaching this stuff to children.

                      Honestly I don't think it will generate the same inequity either, but that's not my problem. My problem is were teaching critical race theory in schools to children who believe in Santa clause.

                      1) theory explicitly states it only applies to US
                      2) it's only a theory, not a fact.

                      My problem is radical activists running the teachers union who take things too far. The problem I'm seeing with people who agree with affirmative action, and critical race theory, is they don't even think it can be taken too far. Yes teachers, principal's, and superintendents think everything about it is perfect. Which is f.uck ing scary. They also think it's their duty to fix these kids.

                      ​​​​​​Again back to my two questions.

                      Even if you're someone agrees with all of this, how exactly do we measure equality so we know when things become equal?

                      How do we stop once things do become equal, especially when schools are teaching that domestic terrorism tactics are acceptable?
                      This isn't a dress rehearsal. Enjoy yourself. There's no do-over.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by mpare View Post
                        The Oxford Research Encyclopedias explains critical race theory in the following manner:

                        "Critical Race Theory (CRT) is a framework that offers researchers, practitioners, and policy-makers a race-conscious approach to understanding educational inequality and structural racism to find solutions that lead to greater justice. Placing race at the center of analysis, Critical Race Theory scholars interrogate policies and practices that are taken for granted to uncover the overt and covert ways that racist ideologies, structures, and institutions create and maintain racial inequality."

                        If they're correct, then I fail to see how making students aware of such issues is 1) uniquely applicable to the USA, and 2) how it is pernicious. Racism and racial inequality are facts. There may be any number of theories with respect to how these inequities arise and are perpetuated, but the existence of different theoretical models cannot be used to conclude that discrimination and racism do not exist. For my part, I'm glad that schools are making students aware of, and sensitive to, those realities. That is not an insidious way of "fixing" kids. It simply helps make them better citizens by ensuring that they aren't blind to the realities that far too many fellow Canadians face because of, among other things, the circumstances of their births.


                        Critical race theory draws the conclusion that everything ever created or still created by white people is racist, because we've all been programmed by society to be that way. They upper grand district school board superintendent said so in an email. Don't tell me they don't think that of children's parents. I have friends and family that teach. Teachers are afraid to speak out.

                        ​​​​​​This is critical race theory playing out in real life, by the only people who were wearing masks before masks were mandatory. How ironic is it that a guy has a free speech = hate speech sign, while people terrorize seniors with their free speech? Also not surprised to see a rainbow flag flying at an event that's trying to exclude people. Very inclusive.

                        https://youtu.be/5KeA_7ouClQ
                        Last edited by Kentucky Blue Balls; Oct 10, 2020, 02:48 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Can you share this email? I'd love to see it. It'd be helpful to the discussion to see the actual words that he used.

                          Originally posted by Kentucky Blue Balls View Post


                          Critical race theory draws the conclusion that everything ever created or still created by white people is racist, because we've all been programmed by society to be that way. They upper grand district school board superintendent said so in an email. Don't tell me they don't think that of children's parents. I have friends and family that teach. Teachers are afraid to speak out.

                          ​​​​​​This is critical race theory playing out in real life, by the only people who were wearing masks before masks were mandatory. How ironic is it that a guy has a free speech = hate speech sign, while people terrorize seniors with their free speech? Also not surprised to see a rainbow flag flying at an event that's trying to exclude people. Very inclusive.

                          https://youtu.be/5KeA_7ouClQ
                          This isn't a dress rehearsal. Enjoy yourself. There's no do-over.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            This firmitive action\ equity crap is racist in it self. They have to exclude white people from the pool because us minorities are too inferior to compete with them. I find that quite offensive in it self.
                            http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=914402

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Minorities are inferior ? %^%%^&**(#(&&&^^^6655
                              I would like to slap you with my degrees and the tip of my boot

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by guitarman View Post
                                This firmitive action\ equity crap is racist in it self. They have to exclude white people from the pool because us minorities are too inferior to compete with them. I find that quite offensive in it self.
                                We say "race shouldn't matter" in hiring. But of course we have years of data that shows race does matter. What will change if we don't use affirmative action methods?
                                Canada largely excluded minorities for decades even when they were qualified. Where were the white people complaining about the advantages to white people during the decades they didn't have to compete for jobs with whole class of qualified people?
                                Look at the Native Affairs Dept. Largely white, are they "more qualified" to deal with native issues? How did that happen? An accident?
                                Some data shows that somewhere between 1-3% of govt job postings are going to be targeted. Indeed some individuals will feel slighted. It can appear morally wrong but is there a "greater good" here? If having minorities in key positions at DOD will help the military look more attractive to minorities, maybe. Some diversity is desirable and I don't think we are close on being too "diverse" so complaints about "when will it end?" are hyperbole.
                                I don't love targeted hiring but we have a few dynamics in play here.
                                In strictly utilitarian numbers, when we talked about " less discrimination" in hiring or workplace promotions, it's had almost no effect on the numbers, it simply perpetuated the problem. So the "colorblind" argument has been shown to not work. But that's the argument used by most everyone who objects to affirmative action. What it amounts to is keeping the status quo.
                                ​​​​​​
                                ​​​​​​

                                Comment

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