Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

[Feebz13]

Hi guys,
I recently brought my sticks in to get regripped at Golf Town. I currently play Wilson Staff CI6 irons with True Temper regular shafts.
I've been playing for 4 years now and these were my first set. While I was getting them regripped I borrwed my brothers MacGregor VIP V-Foil Torneys.
These irons are more of a players iron (smaller forged heads, with Rifle 5.0 shafts) they're also about 1/2 an inch shorter than the Wilsons. I go to the range once a week and noticed that I was striking the ball much better with the Macgregor irons.

Today I got my CI6es back and did a comparison with both sets. I hit the Mac's WAY better. I can really feel the weight of the head and for some reason it smooths out my swing. My tempo is much better with these irons.

My question, is this a matter of the heads or the shafts, or both? If I put shorter rifle 5.0 shafts in my CI6es will this improve my ball striking/tempo, or should I look for a set of VIPs with shorter 5.0s?

I realize this is probably difficult to answer without seeing my swing, but just curious what I should do.

Unfortunately, my brother won't give up his Macs.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Feebz13]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

Here's a picture of the iron head for comparison.

[davee]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

This is a very broad question but maybe we can narrow it down.

Were you hitting the Macs outside on grass. When you hit both side by side was it outside off grass or indoors off a mat.

The first thing that pops out is the 1/2" shorter shaft lengths on the Macs that you hit better.

Different shafts will react differently during YOUR swing. Could be the rifle's bend profile suits your swing and the way you load the club.

Head design also makes a difference. Macs would have less offset, less bounce and different turf ineraction. Are you a hitter or swinger. Do you sweep the ball or are you a digger.

Sometimes we just luck into a club that matchs up with us, then all of a sudden it's OMG these work so much better. You had one of those moments and asking the question is smart on your part. Maybe some of the club builders will jump in with answers.

[Feebz13]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

Hi Davee,
Thanks for the reply.
I was hitting both off of mats (@ Launch). Really curious to see what happens off grass.

I'm a hitter most of the time, but my best shots are when I swing. I'd like to be a swinger. I tend to swing with the longer irons/driver and hit with the shorter ones...if that makes sense. The Macs helped me swing (I thougth it was the head weight, but could be the shafts).

I'm definitely a digger, but I found with the macs that I made clean contact with the ball, then the mat. I'm sure if I played these on grass my divots would be nice & compact and not the pelts that I sometimes come up with with the Wilsons.

You're right, there's something about the Macs (head weight, shaft bend profile, length) that gives me better awareness of my swing/clubhead. I like the Wilson's and thought I hit them pretty good.

I definitely had the OMG moment. The ball just rockets off the face of the Macs with a smooth swing... I slightly regret hitting them, because I wasn't aware of what I was missing...now I want that feeling with my own set!

Thanks again for the reply, hopefully I'll have something ironed out by spring.

[TourIQ]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

What % wider are the soles on the GI irons? Some golfers are better suited for non-gi irons like the MacGregors.

[Big Shooter]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

I would be careful comparing distance, etc. at The Launch in WINTER vs. Courses in warmer temps.

[TLT Dan]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

Perhaps the lie is different on your brothers set?
Length and lie are directly related, so you can't consider 1 without the other.

Is your directional control different between the 2 sets?

[Weirfan]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

1/2 inch shorter is a significant difference and can make a huge difference in accuracy

also sounds like the Macs have a heavier total weight and/or swingweight
which might suit your swing better.

sounds to me like the Macs are just a better fit to your needs.

[Feebz13]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

@TourIQ - the soles are actually the same width (the Macs may even be slightly wider). I was suprprised actually because they GIs seem like they'd be much wider.

@Dan - directional control is similar, but I seem to be able to compress the ball better with the Mac (due to forging?)

@Weirfan - I agree, I was actually thinking of playing around with some lead tape this spring. Might have to cut down the shafts too.


Thanks for the input guys.

[Hennie Bogan]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

I switched from the apex edge to the apex blades and will never play another iron.

[mtrimarchi]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

I am starting to wonder about this question myself. I own a set of Mizuno JPX 800 irons. These are considered game improvement irons and I hit them well because I had them custom fitted. However one of my friends recently purchased some Nike pro combo irons that have a much smaller head and profile. I have tried them at the golf dome as well as outdoors at Annandale and I stare in amazement every time I hit them. I am now wondering if I should switch to a set of irons that have a smaller profile.

I plan on sticking with the Mizuno's for the next little while but will definitely have to try a round or two with my friends new sticks to see if it makes sense for me to make a change.

Thanks

Mike

[bogey5]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

Isn't there an unwritten rule in golf that the clubs you hit the best are always in somebody else's bag?

[davee]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

Isn't there an unwritten rule in golf that the clubs you hit the best are always in somebody else's bag?

Yes that rule does exist. Just don't ever admit they are your wife's clubs

[ThomD]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

Since there is only an inch of difference between men's and women's clubs and some of that is due to perceived strength differences, you have to be riding the skirts of the bell curve before you need to drop down in shaft length. However you might need a lie adjustment if you are pulling a lot of shots.

Overall I think there are more free points in golf clubs from shafts, and then from getting everything else right also. Heads are really low in importance, which you can tell by the number of rocking players who used to play super game improvement heads that were all wrong for them. Happily those days are on the wain.

Game improvements is a crock. It is a one size fits all concept of what a given golfer needs, based on the needs of beginners from the segment that spends the most on golf, not even the majority of players. This is combined with dubious ideas that in many cases do not pan out even for those for whom they were intended. The marketing that is then laid over this is normally highly deceptive. There may be truth in it, but if these guys apply their knowledge of clubs to anything it is most likely rigging a test so it truthfully misleads the public in a particular direction. Iron Byron type tests being a classic example of misdirection.

The first thing you need to understand is what you want to do with the clubs. If in fact you want to play golf, the game of personally achieving low scores, then you need to figure out how you will do that. The easy points in a set of clubs are to get a set that is very consistent. You need to think like the Rifle shaft you tried, you are hunting targets, not freakish occurrences of distance. You need a set that will emphasize the scoring game, no ten degree gaps in loft, no overlength clubs, no fake numbering, etc... Even drivers should be played to targets.

If you prefer to play best ball tournaments, then you are in a different world. You need to consider where you can add something. Normally big jumps in distance come more reliably from physical exercise than clubs. I once gained a real 20 yards on my 7 iron from only a month spent on crutches, and it wasn't from my leg action...

[TourIQ]

Re: Game Improvement Irons making me worse?

Since there is only an inch of difference between men's and women's clubs and some of that is due to perceived strength differences, you have to be riding the skirts of the bell curve before you need to drop down in shaft length. However you might need a lie adjustment if you are pulling a lot of shots.

Overall I think there are more free points in golf clubs from shafts, and then from getting everything else right also. Heads are really low in importance, which you can tell by the number of rocking players who used to play super game improvement heads that were all wrong for them. Happily those days are on the wain.

Game improvements is a crock. It is a one size fits all concept of what a given golfer needs, based on the needs of beginners from the segment that spends the most on golf, not even the majority of players. This is combined with dubious ideas that in many cases do not pan out even for those for whom they were intended. The marketing that is then laid over this is normally highly deceptive. There may be truth in it, but if these guys apply their knowledge of clubs to anything it is most likely rigging a test so it truthfully misleads the public in a particular direction. Iron Byron type tests being a classic example of misdirection.

The first thing you need to understand is what you want to do with the clubs. If in fact you want to play golf, the game of personally achieving low scores, then you need to figure out how you will do that. The easy points in a set of clubs are to get a set that is very consistent. You need to think like the Rifle shaft you tried, you are hunting targets, not freakish occurrences of distance. You need a set that will emphasize the scoring game, no ten degree gaps in loft, no overlength clubs, no fake numbering, etc... Even drivers should be played to targets.

If you prefer to play best ball tournaments, then you are in a different world. You need to consider where you can add something. Normally big jumps in distance come more reliably from physical exercise than clubs. I once gained a real 20 yards on my 7 iron from only a month spent on crutches, and it wasn't from my leg action...

ThomD you implied a lot of deception to fool the gullable golfing public, most of it is true

The only thing I would take exception to are 'heads are high (not low) in importance' (due to our testing) but the experts will debate this one for years. The other parameter which is super critical to reduce Club % Error is the precision of the build across the full set of clubs, but it is rarely discussed. People are content if all shaft bands indicated S flex