Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

[Gridiron]

I am looking at getting a new set of clubs this year or maybe just re-shafting my current set. I am trying to understand the process (or maybe the cost) of having a set built corectly versus just ordered off the rack from the manufacturer and then just having the lofts/lie's verified.

Assuming I want all the bells and whistles on my build (if I'm doing this, I'm doing it right) am I correct in the understanding that it goes something like this:

1. Buy the clubs. Assuming most manufactures don't just sell the heads. So you pay for the whole set.
2. The club builder then takes that set, pulls the shafts out, does their work to the head, then uses another set of fresh shafts so that they can frequency match them, etc., etc.
3. Clubs are assembled.

I know club building is much more involved than that and I don't want to trivialize the craftsmanship that goes into doing it but for my purposes, if I understand this correctly, I essentially need to pay for 2 sets of shafts? The ones that came with the clubs and then the new ones that replaced them? (I understand I could potentially sell the shaft pulls and maybe get $100)

I am not arguing the merits of the process rather I am trying to grasp what the total cost may be so that I can either prepare for it or choose to go another way.

If my understanding is correct, then essentially I am best off to find the absolute cheapest set of the irons I want, regardless of shaft (without buying fakes) and then handing them over to the builder to work their magic.

Correct?

[cuonthe1t]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

Why not go to a club fitter that works with components? About 6 years I had a set of 555m irons from Wishon which included pured shafts and it cost me less for these than my 660 titleist blades I bought a year before

[TourIQ]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

I am looking at getting a new set of clubs this year or maybe just re-shafting my current set.

1. Buy the clubs. Assuming most manufactures don't just sell the heads. So you pay for the whole set.
2. The club builder then takes that set, pulls the shafts out, does their work to the head, then uses another set of fresh shafts so that they can frequency match them, etc., etc.
3. Clubs are assembled.

and then handing them over to the builder to work their magic. Correct?

Go to the club builder 1st not 2nd, as he/she might steer you in a different direction / decision on which club heads to buy / are recommended, and it might save you some money. If you are not hung-up on Name Brand, some really good component outlets like Wishon, etc out there. In other words, go the clubmaker 1st.

[gimmeabogey]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

Speaking about 'club builders' sounds like second grade club but they are not. They are just not as we'll known brands like Wishon vs TaylorMade.

However brands such as TaylorMade, Callaway etc can also be custom ordered.

1) you can go to OEM fitting centre such as Callaway fitting centre where they will fit you and if you buy a set, then the fitting is free.

2) you can go to Golftown and they will fit you to any brand for free and sell you the clubs

3) the best and more costly alternative is go either to Modern Golf or GolfLab apparently best fitting facilities in GTA. Get fitted by them, get your specs and order your custom clubs.

4) no you don't have to buy clubs with improper shafts and and then get fitted and replace the shafts. You get fitted and order your clubs to your specs whether major brand or lessor known brands all the same but different price point

[Gridiron]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

Speaking about 'club builders' sounds like second grade club but they are not. They are just not as we'll known brands like Wishon vs TaylorMade.

However brands such as TaylorMade, Callaway etc can also be custom ordered.

1) you can go to OEM fitting centre such as Callaway fitting centre where they will fit you and if you buy a set, then the fitting is free.

2) you can go to Golftown and they will fit you to any brand for free and sell you the clubs

3) the best and more costly alternative is go either to Modern Golf or GolfLab apparently best fitting facilities in GTA. Get fitted by them, get your specs and order your custom clubs.

4) no you don't have to buy clubs with improper shafts and and then get fitted and replace the shafts. You get fitted and order your clubs to your specs whether major brand or lessor known brands all the same but different price point

This is an example of what I think people (including myself) don't truely understand about having clubs built specifically for them and hence, undervalue the custom club builder.

Options 1,2 & 4 are basically the same. You buy the club essentially directly from the manufacturer. Although you can get them "custom" (shaft, length, lies and even lofts) it is NOT the same as have a builder build it from scratch and frequency match them, PURE the shafts, etc. You still get the same factory assembly process with a little work after the fact. If you want all the frequency matching, etc., you still, I believe, have to buy new shafts after the fact. Which is my original question.

Option 2, is also similar. You can order clubs through Modern Golf or Golf Lab, or any club builder, and they can give you the same stock stuff. But to have them invest their time and expertise buidling the clubs, requires the purchase of another set of shafts to do it right. Or so I believe.

I am not complaining about the cost, I just am trying to determine if my understanding is correct.

I do agree that buying from a component builder, like Wishon may be cheaper, but that may not be the brand that is "best" for me (yet to be determined by a fitting)

[dmcdam]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

This is an example of what I think people (including myself) don't truely understand about having clubs built specifically for them and hence, undervalue the custom club builder.

Options 1,2 & 4 are basically the same. You buy the club essentially directly from the manufacturer. Although you can get them "custom" (shaft, length, lies and even lofts) it is NOT the same as have a builder build it from scratch and frequency match them, PURE the shafts, etc. You still get the same factory assembly process with a little work after the fact. If you want all the frequency matching, etc., you still, I believe, have to buy new shafts after the fact. Which is my original question.

Option 2, is also similar. You can order clubs through Modern Golf or Golf Lab, or any club builder, and they can give you the same stock stuff. But to have them invest their time and expertise buidling the clubs, requires the purchase of another set of shafts to do it right. Or so I believe.

I am not complaining about the cost, I just am trying to determine if my understanding is correct.

I do agree that buying from a component builder, like Wishon may be cheaper, but that may not be the brand that is "best" for me (yet to be determined by a fitting)

The difference of going to a Golf Lab or Modern Golf is that they give you all the benefits of a custom builder, but with top name brand components. They have a huge selection of iron heads and shafts that you can try out, switching heads and shafts until you get the right combination for you. Then they assemble, pure, and adjust the clubs exactly to your specs.

[Lob wedge]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

The difference of going to a Golf Lab or Modern Golf is that they give you all the benefits of a custom builder, but with top name brand components. They have a huge selection of iron heads and shafts that you can try out, switching heads and shafts until you get the right combination for you. Then they assemble, pure, and adjust the clubs exactly to your specs.

This^. My custom order big name brand came with 1 shaft almost x and one softer than reg with the rest pretty good. Swingweights were off too. MG fixed them for me. Every lie was off on my Son's "custom" order big name brand too. MG fixed those too. Next time I will still buy the name brand that I like but I'll buy it through Modern Golf so that I know each club is exactly as ordered and to spec. When OEMs are built the guy assembling them has a box of heads and a box of shafts and he just puts the two together without taking into account different weight heads and out of spec shafts. MG builds every club by hand after "pureing " each shaft and weighing all components. It does cost a bit more but how often do you buy new clubs?

[gimmeabogey]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

This is an example of what I think people (including myself) don't truely understand about having clubs built specifically for them and hence, undervalue the custom club builder.

Options 1,2 & 4 are basically the same. You buy the club essentially directly from the manufacturer. Although you can get them "custom" (shaft, length, lies and even lofts) it is NOT the same as have a builder build it from scratch and frequency match them, PURE the shafts, etc. You still get the same factory assembly process with a little work after the fact. If you want all the frequency matching, etc., you still, I believe, have to buy new shafts after the fact. Which is my original question.

Option 2, is also similar. You can order clubs through Modern Golf or Golf Lab, or any club builder, and they can give you the same stock stuff. But to have them invest their time and expertise buidling the clubs, requires the purchase of another set of shafts to do it right. Or so I believe.

I am not complaining about the cost, I just am trying to determine if my understanding is correct.

I do agree that buying from a component builder, like Wishon may be cheaper, but that may not be the brand that is "best" for me (yet to be determined by a fitting)

I was told by GT employee that they order from OEM who build from scratch not take set off the shelf and rebuild. Of course he could be wrong but thats what he told me.

Why would they build clubs and then rebuild? Why do you think Ping, TaylorMade, Callaway have fitting carts/centres? My assumption is so they can build you clubs to your specs from scratch.

[TourIQ]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

The difference of going to a Golf Lab or Modern Golf is that they give you all the benefits of a custom builder, but with top name brand components. They have a huge selection of iron heads and shafts that you can try out, switching heads and shafts until you get the right combination for you. Then they assemble, pure, and adjust the clubs exactly to your specs.

Do these shops give you specific build #'s like actual club; length, total wt., swt or moi, cpm frequency, loft and lie, etc. on each club built, so a person can compare to the fitting requirements? If so, do they charge extra and at what rate?

Someone could do a fitting and say you need S flex steel shafts and all shaft bands state S flex. Not so great if they measure between A to X flex, but on average they hit S flex. Do you not want to know, what % of the fitting requirements hit the build specifications within a tolerance band?

From multiple threads, there is an abundance of shops who can take your existing set and tell you the actual numbers and where they are off specification, but who provides this same level of quality after the build?

This^. My custom order big name brand came with 1 shaft almost x and one softer than reg with the rest pretty good. Swingweights were off too. Every lie was off on my Son's "custom" order big name brand too.

Exactly as the build is super critical

[Parman18]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

This^. My custom order big name brand came with 1 shaft almost x and one softer than reg with the rest pretty good. Swingweights were off too. MG fixed them for me. Every lie was off on my Son's "custom" order big name brand too. MG fixed those too. Next time I will still buy the name brand that I like but I'll buy it through Modern Golf so that I know each club is exactly as ordered and to spec. When OEMs are built the guy assembling them has a box of heads and a box of shafts and he just puts the two together without taking into account different weight heads and out of spec shafts. MG builds every club by hand after "pureing " each shaft and weighing all components. It does cost a bit more but how often do you buy new clubs?

A) You've oversimplified by a mile how the OEM's assemble clubs. Take a tour of one of their factories, real eye opener.

B) If you order through modern golf from the OEM'S you're gonna get the exact same product, you're just paying a pretty penny for modern golf to check everything and fix it.

[TourIQ]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

A) You've oversimplified by a mile how the OEM's assemble clubs. Take a tour of one of their factories, real eye opener.

Please enlighten us

This was posted several years ago. I do not know the original source:

“Last winter, I disassembled a new set of Hogan Apex blades for a 0 handicap golfer, and a set of new Titleist blades [I forget the model number] for a golfer who will be playing the Canadian Tour this coming year. Of these 16 wonderful OEM's, 6 heads had the hosel bore drilled off centre, no two consecutive irons had the same swingweight, consecutive irons differed by as much as 12 cpm's [exceeds a full flex], there was absolutely no pattern to the frequencies [shaft stiffness] from club-to-club, and in one set the 6-iron was stiffer than the 7-iron [it should be more flexible] and so on. Each set retailed for ~ $1,000 CAD.”

If they can't get the build right for the tour guys what chance does Joe Public has?

[dmcdam]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

Do these shops give you specific build #'s like actual club; length, total wt., swt or moi, cpm frequency, loft and lie, etc. on each club built, so a person can compare to the fitting requirements? If so, do they charge extra and at what rate?

Someone could do a fitting and say you need S flex steel shafts and all shaft bands state S flex. Not so great if they measure between A to X flex, but on average they hit S flex. Do you not want to know, what % of the fitting requirements hit the build specifications within a tolerance band?

From multiple threads, there is an abundance of shops who can take your existing set and tell you the actual numbers and where they are off specification, but who provides this same level of quality after the build?Exactly as the build is super critical

Yes they do. The map your existing set from top to bottom. At the end you know what you have and what you need. They don't just tell you to get a stiff shaft, but you hit all of the shafts they have available until you decide what best suits your game. Then they order up the shafts and heads, pure and build to your specs.

[Parman18]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

????

Not sure what some random anecdote from nowhere about a company that hasn't existed for almost a decade has anything to do with what I'm talking about?

Please enlighten us

This was posted several years ago. I do not know the original source:

“Last winter, I disassembled a new set of Hogan Apex blades for a 0 handicap golfer, and a set of new Titleist blades [I forget the model number] for a golfer who will be playing the Canadian Tour this coming year. Of these 16 wonderful OEM's, 6 heads had the hosel bore drilled off centre, no two consecutive irons had the same swingweight, consecutive irons differed by as much as 12 cpm's [exceeds a full flex], there was absolutely no pattern to the frequencies [shaft stiffness] from club-to-club, and in one set the 6-iron was stiffer than the 7-iron [it should be more flexible] and so on. Each set retailed for ~ $1,000 CAD.”

If they can't get the build right for the tour guys what chance does Joe Public has?

[Gridiron]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

This^. My custom order big name brand came with 1 shaft almost x and one softer than reg with the rest pretty good. Swingweights were off too. MG fixed them for me. Every lie was off on my Son's "custom" order big name brand too. MG fixed those too. Next time I will still buy the name brand that I like but I'll buy it through Modern Golf so that I know each club is exactly as ordered and to spec. When OEMs are built the guy assembling them has a box of heads and a box of shafts and he just puts the two together without taking into account different weight heads and out of spec shafts. MG builds every club by hand after "pureing " each shaft and weighing all components. It does cost a bit more but how often do you buy new clubs?

Thanks Lob Wedge. This is what I was getting at.
So, for the ones that were off, you then had to pay for a new shaft for each one correct?
I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, I expect to pay Modern Golf for theie time and expertise, I just want to understand the process.

[Gridiron]

Re: Club Building - Do I understand this correctly?

A) You've oversimplified by a mile how the OEM's assemble clubs. Take a tour of one of their factories, real eye opener.

B) If you order through modern golf from the OEM'S you're gonna get the exact same product, you're just paying a pretty penny for modern golf to check everything and fix it.

Have you ever watched the Undercover Boss episode where Mark King (Taylormade CEO) goes on the floor and poses as a new worker assemblilng drivers. Look around at the other people there. To me, they don't look like expert technician treating my individual product with care and concern. They are factory workers pumping out a product. (The fact they they would put this person posing as a new, unskilled employee on the floor making clubs says enough, regardless of the rest).
What shaft it is, length, lie doesn't really matter to them. I am not disputing the high tech nature of the factory. But it's hardly what I am looking for. I don't see those people spining every shaft. PUREing it. Frequency testing it. Making sure the headweight and shaft weight will produce the proper swingwieght. It isn't the same.

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/04/07/undercover-boss-taylormade-ceo-reveals-identity-to-smitten-wor/

So it wasn't surprising, then, that King didn't put up a fight when he was recognized on the floor of the company's Carlsbad, Calif., club-manufacturing plant, which -- with $8 million a year in sales -- is the company's bread and butter. Here King was working with Christian, 19, and no one in the division was over 25. And so the prospect of this middle-aged man wanting a job making clubs seemed a bit unlikely. When crew members asked, "Are you Mark King?," he immediately polled the room to find out how many on the floor thought so. When it turned out that everyone did, he didn't even try to deny it.

Not that Christian didn't seem like a kid who was nice, trying to make a living. But comparing what he was putting into club making to what happens at Modern Golf or Golf Lab or in TourIQ's shop isn't in the same ballpark.