Does Extending Shaft Slow the Toe Down ???

[veryold]

Hey all

As per title, or IOW, if I extend the shaft does the Moment of Inertia of the club around its SHAFT AXIS increase, making it harder to square the face at impact ?

Thanks to all for helping and cheers !!!

[ScrappyChip]

Hey all

As per title, or IOW, if I extend the shaft does the Moment of Inertia of the club around its SHAFT AXIS increase, making it harder to square the face at impact ?

Thanks to all for helping and cheers !!!

It makes the total weight heavier and total weight is harder to rotate back to square. TXG did a video on this showing the difference in head + total weights and how fast the face rotates for that person and their speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPun9qS-c_Q&t=994s

[Tintin]

Hey all

As per title, or IOW, if I extend the shaft does the Moment of Inertia of the club around its SHAFT AXIS increase, making it harder to square the face at impact ?

Thanks to all for helping and cheers !!!

Technically, increasing the length of a golf club increases the MOI of the whole club but other factors come into play.The shaft will bow a little more(probably not much but it will) IMHO the length of the club for a particular golfer is a lot more important than MOI. If the club is too short for particular golfer then contact will be closer to the toe. If too long closer to the heel. Focus on finding the right length by using foot powder or impact decals then match the MOI to the rest of the set if you so desire..

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/909991/diy-driver-tune-up-diy-fitting

[nearace]

I hope there is no difference ,just added an inch on the old set of blades.

[Tintin]

I hope there is no difference ,just added an inch on the old set of blades.

MOI/Swingeight increase and effective lie angle changed to more upright

[veryold]

Thank you all for chiming in.

Maybe just a bit of a definition may help the discussion:

"moment of inertia is a quantity expressing a body's tendency to resist angular acceleration. It is the sum of the products of the mass of each particle in the body with the square of its distance from the axis of rotation - which is the shaft axis in this case."

So, as I indicated in my OP question, I am interested ONLY if the ROTATIONAL MOI of the club AROUND ITS SHAFT AXIS will increase as we lenghten club ???

Obviously, if we added more weight to the toe of the club, that would increase the MOI as defined above.

But I am not quite clear why the same MOI would increase if I lenghten the shaft ???

[ScrappyChip]

Thank you all for chiming in.

Maybe just a bit of a definition may help the discussion:

"moment of inertia is a quantity expressing a body's tendency to resist angular acceleration. It is the sum of the products of the mass of each particle in the body with the square of its distance from the axis of rotation - which is the shaft axis in this case."

So, as I indicated in my OP question, I am interested ONLY if the ROTATIONAL MOI of the club AROUND ITS SHAFT AXIS will increase as we lenghten club ???

Obviously, if we added more weight to the toe of the club, that would increase the MOI as defined above.

But I am not quite clear why the same MOI would increase if I lenghten the shaft ???

I don't think anyone has measured this explicitly. But to answer your question using other evidence, longer in shafts usually == softer. Longer typically means counterbalancing as extensions are often made from much denser graphite than shafts are length:length. I would imagine, assuming you somehow manage to SW it to be proper, you've effectively made a club that is easier to draw as CB shafts are often easier to draw (especially if they have very soft middle and tip sections), combo'd with a softer-flex shaft now.

[Tintin]

If you are mathematically inclined, the MOI of any club can be figured by using the appropriate formula. In this case MOI= Length² x (Head weight + Shaft weight/3). The length is the golf club’s final length, the shaft weight is the shaft’s cut weight before installation, and the head weight is simply the weight of the head. After doing the math, use the first four digits to the left of the answer and try to keep each club within one percent of the favorite club MOI

.


Before proceeding, it will be useful to gain a feel for what is meant by moment of inertia, or MOI, when we refer to the fully assembled golf club. We know that when we try to move any object, it resists our efforts according to its mass. If a mass is attached to the end of a rod and swung from point A to point B, it offers a certain resistance to our efforts. If the rod is lengthened, it is more difficult to make the swing in the same time as before because the MOI of the entire mass and rod as one object has been increased. Therefore, if we consider the object in our example to be a golf club, the MOI is a measurement of the golf club's ability to resist our ability to rotate the golf club around our body.

We can then say that MOI is the parameter that resists our efforts to swing and rotate the club around our body in the swing. The MOI can be increased by increasing the length through which the mass of the club is rotating and/or by increasing the mass of the club itself. Or, the MOI can be decreased by shortening the length and reducing the mass of the club. In addition, MOI can be changed by altering a combination of the length and mass of the golf club.

A golf club that has a large MOI will require more effort to swing than a golf club that has a smaller MOI. The proper MOI of the golf club for the golfer thus has a direct bearing on the golfer's strength, swing speed and the amount of control that the golfer has on the golf club when accelerating during the downswing. This generates the energy potential needed to propel the golf ball some distance away and along a desired trajectory. The energy potential of the golf swing can therefore be optimized by adjusting the MOI of the golf club to suit a particular golfer.

One of the goals in the fitting process will be to determine what exact MOI is best for each golfer. If that can be identified, then the MOI Speed Matching System will enable clubmakers to build golf clubs to a matched MOI so that all of the clubs in a set will require the same effort to swing. If this is done, the golfer should experience an improvement in consistency in being able to strike the ball on-center a higher percentage of the time, which in turn will translate into greater distance and better accuracy overall.

[veryold]

.


Before proceeding, it will be useful to gain a feel for what is meant by moment of inertia, or MOI, when we refer to the fully assembled golf club. We know that when we try to move any object, it resists our efforts according to its mass. If a mass is attached to the end of a rod and swung from point A to point B, it offers a certain resistance to our efforts. If the rod is lengthened, it is more difficult to make the swing in the same time as before because the MOI of the entire mass and rod as one object has been increased. Therefore, if we consider the object in our example to be a golf club, the MOI is a measurement of the golf club's ability to resist our ability to rotate the golf club around our body.

We can then say that MOI is the parameter that resists our efforts to swing and rotate the club around our body in the swing. The MOI can be increased by increasing the length through which the mass of the club is rotating and/or by increasing the mass of the club itself. Or, the MOI can be decreased by shortening the length and reducing the mass of the club. In addition, MOI can be changed by altering a combination of the length and mass of the golf club.

A golf club that has a large MOI will require more effort to swing than a golf club that has a smaller MOI. The proper MOI of the golf club for the golfer thus has a direct bearing on the golfer's strength, swing speed and the amount of control that the golfer has on the golf club when accelerating during the downswing. This generates the energy potential needed to propel the golf ball some distance away and along a desired trajectory. The energy potential of the golf swing can therefore be optimized by adjusting the MOI of the golf club to suit a particular golfer.

One of the goals in the fitting process will be to determine what exact MOI is best for each golfer. If that can be identified, then the MOI Speed Matching System will enable clubmakers to build golf clubs to a matched MOI so that all of the clubs in a set will require the same effort to swing. If this is done, the golfer should experience an improvement in consistency in being able to strike the ball on-center a higher percentage of the time, which in turn will translate into greater distance and better accuracy overall.

Could it be that you and I are talking about two different MOIs

You seem to refer to MOI of a "swinging club", while I am talking about the MOI of "the rotation" of the club around the shaft axis, no ???

Probably this discussion is getting really TECHNICAL HERE and probably just matter of time before someone gets us back to REALITY and tells us to "JUST GRIP IT AND RIP IT .

[Tintin]

Perhaps you'll find your answer here:

https://web.calpoly.edu/~rbrown/MOI.html

[veryold]

Perhaps you'll find your answer here:

https://web.calpoly.edu/~rbrown/MOI.html

Hey, THANKS for this, it looks like a nice, technical discussion, and it will take me a while to read it all, but just skimming thru it, I see them clearly identifying, not just two, but three different MOIs for the club, but so far I did not see them answering my OP question.

But thanks again for this, really appreciated

[Tintin]

Hey, THANKS for this, it looks like a nice, technical discussion, and it will take me a while to read it all, but just skimming thru it, I see them clearly identifying, not just two, but three different MOIs for the club, but so far I did not see them answering my OP question.

But thanks again for this, really appreciated

If you ask Tutelman he will answer your question

https://www.tutelman.com/aboutus/contact.php

[bl8d]

Hey all

As per title, or IOW, if I extend the shaft does the Moment of Inertia of the club around its SHAFT AXIS increase, making it harder to square the face at impact ?

Thanks to all for helping and cheers !!!

in short, yes.

the reason being, that increasing shaft length will increase the shaft's Toe Droop, regardless of it flex designation has the effect of slightly opening the face.
Also,note that the toe droop does not occur perfectly vertical to the shaft's axis. The toe will always lag slightly behind the heel due to the shaft's torquing.
Most players learn to adjust to the shaft torque effect by adopting a slightly stronger grip.
Toe droop can be minimized by the FLO method which orients the shaft's spine at 12/6 o'clock, but that topic is beaten to death already.

[jerrymb]

well I built a driver a tailormade 9* the first tayormade with a HM40 shaft sflex at 45" that was a hard club to hit because on the downswing the shaft bowed like a reverse c with the grip and butt horizontal to the ground anyway this caused the face to close it also added loft, with the grip at the center of my body the head was down at the ball I got this on my sony hi def movie camera That was my first metal driver in the PGA, that didn't last long, lol so from that to answer your question I found that as you get to long and whippy your going to get some forward flex if the shaft in the torque department, its not going to be a pretty picture, you really need very good timimg to hit the club