will golf be just as popular this summer?

[Fore Warned]

That's kinda surprising to me. Not sure what their average price per round is but at 70,000 x $50 each of last couple of years that still doesn't sound like a lot relative to what a big housing development might bring in at that location. And not sure if it's still the case but I recall the original plan was to keep a "hybrid" 18 holes in place so some ongoing golf revenues with the housing.

But I think those courses are a valuable piece in the golf landscape providing decent golf on a budget for people that don't want to drive too far so the longer they're there the better.

Well, all I know is what this fellow said. I understand however, they have also spent quite a bit of money updating the kitchen.

The points raised by @mrcltuch31 are worth noting. Construction and labour costs are rising and the housing market is softening somewhat.

Timing the development for future sale a few years down the line, in an unpredictable market and economy, probably makes things less certain and appealing, when the property is generating revenues.

[hammy1983]

My take is that it that what we are seeing is a mild softening but it is course dependent. Some courses are seeing a greater drop off. This could be location, fees, quality etc but like with anything the better quality venues will see the most demand and it will trickle down from there. Unlike past 2 pandemic seasons where people would book anywhere just to get a time, not every course is jammed solid daily like they were. People aren't looking to , and don't need to spend $80 at Banty's Roost when there are 20 other better courses for that. Quality courses with top customer service, conditioning, reasonable fees and of course located in a good spot continue to be busy.

looking at our tee sheet for this weekend versus past two years on the same weekend the numbers are really pretty much the same.

2020 : Saturday 287 Sunday 312 = 599
2021: Saturday 312 Sunday 295 = 607
2022 : Saturday 288 Sunday 299 = 587 ( this will likely go up 10-20)

We are still WAY WAY above pre pandemic levels where even as one of the busier courses a really good Saturday or Sunday was 225 players.

I haven't seen the latest numbers on rounds played to include June but when I last discussed this late May, courses this season were still significantly ahead of 2020 and 2021 for rounds played to date because courses were closed by Dofo for significant durations in 2020 and 2021.

Folks also need to remember that rounds played, while a significant driver of course revenue, is not the only thing. Golf Camps are back on, weddings and other functions being scheduled, course restaurants and Food and Beverage are operation at normal capacity again, pro shops open and merch sales happening, teaching lessons and so on are all things that were stopped or limited in 2020 and 2021 and back generating $$ for courses.

Haven't heard of green fees being dropped places but I don't wander much. I know our prime time green fee is the same but it hasn't changed in 6 seasons now. Memberships and Tournaments that were discontinued in past two years again probably handled on a course by course specific basis. No plans for either at ours as far as I know.

Damn, no increase in 6 seasons is impressive. I'm happy to see that your numbers are basically flat and customers are rewarding the course for not taking increases. My course has seen a significant reduction in tee times this year so far. That's probably because they went over the top when they increased rates. Most courses around the Barrie area passed along a double-digit % increase.
l have spoken with buddies at other courses that are experiencing a reduction too. My guess is the further outside of the GTA, the more they will be impacted as the need to drive far is not as great with the current availability.
I get weekly deals from Cobble Beach whereas last year I dont believe they had any. The Nest at Friday Harbour is now offering free carts with tee times booked between 12 and close. Golf Now has a ton more courses this year and some decent deals.

[Weirfan]

Damn, no increase in 6 seasons is impressive. I'm happy to see that your numbers are basically flat and customers are rewarding the course for not taking increases. My course has seen a significant reduction in tee times this year so far. That's probably because they went over the top when they increased rates. Most courses around the Barrie area passed along a double-digit % increase.
l have spoken with buddies at other courses that are experiencing a reduction too. My guess is the further outside of the GTA, the more they will be impacted as the need to drive far is not as great with the current availability.
I get weekly deals from Cobble Beach whereas last year I dont believe they had any. The Nest at Friday Harbour is now offering free carts with tee times booked between 12 and close. Golf Now has a ton more courses this year and some decent deals.

Friday/Saturday/ Sundays are definitely still seeing crazy high volumes consistent with the past two years. Without looking in detail at the numbers there is probably a slight drop off Monday - Thursday versus 2020/21 but still way, way above pre pandemic.
Leagues grew in popularity so we did expand them and now have 5 leagues running M-Th. This is slightly discounted but typically run at off peak times.

I agree completely about reducing travel. Outside the 2 GTA Am tour events near Peterborough I have not travelled more than 15 minutes to play and likely wont.

Service, course conditions, value and proximity are main drivers again. Courses further out from the GTA have the added cost factor from high gas prices.

[cuonthe1t]

Guess it must be different in the Hamilton area as I have played numerous courses in my area, mind you only Mon thru Fri, and it is a lot less busier than the previous 2 years

[rgk5]

Guess it must be different in the Hamilton area as I have played numerous courses in my area, mind you only Mon thru Fri, and it is a lot less busier than the previous 2 years

Paul, you are correct. No problems getting decent times anywhere around here.

[QuentinJJ]

Played the other day with a fellow who was familiar with the Remington Parkview development proposal.

He said that plans for a housing development there are presently on hold, as....they are making too much money.

I can't believe that a golf course would make too much money to negate a housing development.

[Jeffc]

I can't believe that a golf course would make too much money to negate a housing development.

Yep that makes zero sense

[tacks]

I can't believe that a golf course would make too much money to negate a housing development.

I am in no way to be looked to for financial advise but my guess is based on the theory that land values (and ultimately housing prices for which the houses in the development can be sold) is thought to rise over time. Simply sitting on it increases its value. So if you keep the course and get a good return on your money, it makes sense to wait and cash in on that return while at the same time increasing your future return because the land and selling prices will increase. If you were going to break even or lose money operating the course, perhaps you make a different calculation.

[duffer_mcmulligan]

My course put up record rounds summer of 2020 and 2021. Much less pressure on the tee sheet this year. 20/21 we didn’t allow guests until close to July. This year, we were good out of the gate, though we lost a couple weeks due to crap weather in April and part of May.

[Tphilp]

Guess it must be different in the Hamilton area as I have played numerous courses in my area, mind you only Mon thru Fri, and it is a lot less busier than the previous 2 years

I am booking last minute tee times with ease in the area. Also seeing the tee times later in the afternoon on weekends available

Played this morning with a buddy and didn’t see a person out on the course except a marshal fixing some ball marks on the greens

[Chambokl]

I am booking last minute tee times with ease in the area. Also seeing the tee times later in the afternoon on weekends available

Played this morning with a buddy and didn’t see a person out on the course except a marshal fixing some ball marks on the greens

Just to say . . . this is our busiest summer in quite some years . . .

[veryold]

Much less busy this year, no questions about it (Braeben Academy - 9 hole) - LOVE IT

[Mr22putt]

My course put up record rounds summer of 2020 and 2021. Much less pressure on the tee sheet this year. 20/21 we didn’t allow guests until close to July. This year, we were good out of the gate, though we lost a couple weeks due to crap weather in April and part of May.

Which course?....I think you are a member where the Champions Tour hosts an event?

I assume the course was busy due to more memberships sold in 2020 & 2021....do you still have a waitlist?

[Mr22putt]

Just to say . . . this is our busiest summer in quite some years . . .

Which course?

[Mr22putt]

The 5 muni's continue to be difficult to obtain tee times as they always have been pre-Covid.

A lot more open tee times for suburb courses...some are using dynamic pricing that continue to be not sold.
It will be interesting to see if green fees and semi-private memberships prices drop in 2023.