CGTF vs. CPGA

[longball73]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Seriously, I am getting sick and tired hearing about this topic all the time.

I am a CGTF certified teacher and I do make a very decent living at it considering I have a full time job (Monday to Friday) and do this on the side at night or on weekends.

Yeah, the CGTF has a few problems they should sort out and one of them is the two rounds of 83. It should be similar to the CPGA which is two rounds of 78 or better.

I personally don't have the time or can afford to invest 3 years at my stage in life to do the CPGA. I play to a +1.5 handicap from the tips (6700 yards plus) and have been playing since i was 4 years old (36 years).

I have personally fixed many students swings after they saw a CPGA instructor. Yes, the CGTF has some crappy teachers no doubt about that but so does the CPGA. I have given many lessons this summer and last summer to students who once had CPGA lessons and one of the most common complaints I get about CPGA instructors is they come off as they don't care, they are very anal about time, they have a cocky ego. Just to name a few. I have got a ton of people refer friends, family and co workers to me. I always time out a lesson for an extra 15-20 minutes if I can just in case people need a little extra help or are having trouble understanding something if the hour is up. I don't charge them for this and many CPGA guys are watch watchers from what i am told. Again that is hearsay. I am not going to bash CPGA teachers because when i was younger I had the same teacher for 10 years and she was amazing.

As I stated I do this part time and my rates are not that low compared to CPGA guys/gals.

I have personally witnessed several CGTF Teachers who I wonder how the hell they qualified and passed the PAT. One guy for sure I had two of his students on two occasions come to me after there lesson and asked me If they could have my card. They saw how I conducted my lesson and when I demonstrated how to do something I could actually hit the ball.

By the way I did shoot 70-68 to pass my PAT at Hidden Lakes.

CGTF focuses totally on instruction and not how to manage a pro shop etc. It's all about instruction.

If you're looking for a lesson please give a CGTF Instructor a chance and see for yourself.

I'll tell you what.

I will offer anyone a free 15 minute lesson as an introduction to my teaching. All you have to do is say when and where. You just have to pay for your balls.

I'll keep this offer up until May 1st 2010.

Oh, I do, do video analysis free of charge

I WISH THIS DEBATE WOULD STOP ONCE AND FORE ALL

[goshawk]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Of course you could find great CPGA instructors, not so great ones and great CGTF instructors and also not so great ones.

So go ahead and seek the services of a fantastic teaching professional that genuinely cares about the success of the students. Or you could go get a lesson from 'Johnny Clock Watcher' ........It falls on the consumer, the golfer has to do their homework and find a 'reputable' instructor.

I can tell you they exist and we are fortunate to have a number of quality instructors here in the GTA. I just started taking lessons at Glen Abbey. They have 10 full time instructors and they all seem to have a passion for what they do. My instructor doesn't wear a watch. When I asked him how long the lessons were? He said they would likely range from 30-45minutes but could go longer. Basically the lesson ends when it needs to end, when I come to understand what I am working on, why I am working on it and how I am to practice to achieve results as soon as possible.

Anyways, as you said, there really is no need for this debate exist! Go find yourself a good teacher and get started!

Very well put. I couldn't agree more. Just like there are lots of CPGA & CGTF instructors who are excellent, there are a lot of instructors who haven't been to "formal" schools and no "initials" associating them with an organization. It's up to the student to find the instructor who works for them.

[Scotty]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Actually, Hank Haney is a member of the PGA of America! See links.......http://www.pga.com/profinder/profess.../10271627.html

[JSGolf]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

The CGTF should not even be in the same sentence as the CPGA. It is absurd that one woud even compare the two organizations if you consider the CGTF an oganization.

[houdini]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

The CGTF should not even be in the same sentence as the CPGA. It is absurd that one woud even compare the two organizations if you consider the CGTF an oganization.

Nice first post!


A debate is a debate. You have no argument just an opinion.

Welcome A Board!

[setter02]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Nice first post!


A debate is a debate. You have no argument just an opinion.

Welcome A Board!

Not much of a debate. But as said in other posts, it doesn't matter of your designation, you can still suck. But I'm sure not anyone can learn to be an instructor in a week vs. being immersed in the field for years.

You either have an eye for it or you don't, but you also need to be able to show what you want your students to learn, it's hard to learn something when you can't visually see it or understand what is being asked of you.

[JSGolf]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

For the debate it can be put so many different ways but the CGTF is like king snake of instruction. It may say Teacher/Instructor on the little bag tag but one week of class is not near enough. Further the mailing in of scorecards is priceless, for their PAT.

[hogannut]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

First of all the CPGA program emphasises all aspects of golf operations. Their program spends as much time on how to set up and run a pro shop as it does with teaching. Teaching is only ONE aspect of the CPGA program.

I also agree that the CGTF program on its own is nothing, but if you are only interested in teaching the CPGA program is a huge waste of time as well.

Harvey Pennick spent the last few years of his teaching career giving instruction from a wheel chair, and probably all of his students could have beaten him on the course, but Pennick was still a great teacher.

As I have also said within this thread I know instructors with NO affiliation to ANY organization and they are teaching current playing pro's.

An instructor is only as good as the effort they put into it. If you are constantly studying the golf swing, reading any and all teaching material you will be a better instructor than someone who doesn't regardless of whether your bag tag reads CPGA or CGTF.

Jack Nicklaus could beat Jack Grout at golf, Tiger can beat Hank, Phil can beat Butch. All of these men were/are great teachers.

[hogannut]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Not much of a debate. But as said in other posts, it doesn't matter of your designation, you can still suck. But I'm sure not anyone can learn to be an instructor in a week vs. being immersed in the field for years.

You either have an eye for it or you don't, but you also need to be able to show what you want your students to learn, it's hard to learn something when you can't visually see it or understand what is being asked of you.

YOu are not immersed in TEACHING necessarily. Actually you spend more time in the shop taking tee times and selling golf shirts than you do teaching.

This is the only thing that pi$$es me off about the perception of what a CPGA pro is. I know a lot of CPGA pro's and most of them can't break 75. Why.......because they don't get to play and practice enough to do it. They are talented enough, but the demands of working within the seasonal industry that golf is here in Canada ultimaltely cause their games to deteroriate.

[Golftime]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

For the debate it can be put so many different ways but the CGTF is like king snake of instruction. It may say Teacher/Instructor on the little bag tag but one week of class is not near enough. Further the mailing in of scorecards is priceless, for their PAT.

What do you mean by "the CGTF is like the king snake of instruction"?

[goshawk]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

John, I get the feeling that he's referring to the fact that one species of king snake looks remarkably like a coral snake, but is non-poisonous. In other words, looks dangerous but it's harmless. Looks like a duck, squawks like a duck, walks like a duck, but is really a kangaroo. I get the distinct feeling that JSGolf had a bad experience with a CGTF instructor so all of them are worthless.
JMO

[setter02]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

YOu are not immersed in TEACHING necessarily. Actually you spend more time in the shop taking tee times and selling golf shirts than you do teaching.

This is the only thing that pi$$es me off about the perception of what a CPGA pro is. I know a lot of CPGA pro's and most of them can't break 75. Why.......because they don't get to play and practice enough to do it. They are talented enough, but the demands of working within the seasonal industry that golf is here in Canada ultimaltely cause their games to deteroriate.

Part of it has to be taken as how much does the individual want to become a good teacher. Although not in the CPGA yet, I'm in the Humber PGM Program. I worked the range pretty much all summer at my placement, watched at least 50% of the lessons given to see how and why things were done said. Got to see a ton of bad swings and was able to figure out how I would instruct them. I actually helped out some members (an then got in trouble for doing so). So it is still up to the individual to show an interest on building the skills needed to become a good teacher.

As for running the shop, that's where you make your money, so it has to be done. CPGA does somewhat stand for 'Can't Play Golf Anymore', but it still comes down to how much you want it.

I would drive 35-40 minutes to my placement, work my 8 hour shift then go practice and play 9 holes every other day, whereas some of the guys would just leave right after work and not bother even tho they lived 5 minutes away.

[JSGolf]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

By King Snake, I was reffering to the knock off clubs available in the late 90's that looked identical to King Cobra's. CGTF may want to be considered in the same sentence as the CPGA but they really do not belong.

[goshawk]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Ummmm .........

Oh, never mind. I give up.

[hogannut]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Part of it has to be taken as how much does the individual want to become a good teacher. Although not in the CPGA yet, I'm in the Humber PGM Program. I worked the range pretty much all summer at my placement, watched at least 50% of the lessons given to see how and why things were done said. Got to see a ton of bad swings and was able to figure out how I would instruct them. I actually helped out some members (an then got in trouble for doing so). So it is still up to the individual to show an interest on building the skills needed to become a good teacher.

As for running the shop, that's where you make your money, so it has to be done. CPGA does somewhat stand for 'Can't Play Golf Anymore', but it still comes down to how much you want it.

I would drive 35-40 minutes to my placement, work my 8 hour shift then go practice and play 9 holes every other day, whereas some of the guys would just leave right after work and not bother even tho they lived 5 minutes away.

The difference between you and many CPGA guys is that you stay and practice. I'm not critisizing the tasks a CPGA guy has to do, but like you said the pro shop is where the cash flow happens so of course you have to spend time there.

Humber eh.......say hi to Chris Bevan from Scott Stacey!