CGTF vs. CPGA

[Golftime]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

I hope those who read this and are trying to make the right choice as to what camp will satisfy their need won't be discouraged by the disparity of consensus.

The only thing that matters is that you find someone who communicates the lessons in the clearest most effective way for your learning style. Whether that be through imagery,concise hands on instruction or simple demonstration if you are visually inclined.

Well said.

[4ems]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

I hope those who read this and are trying to make the right choice as to what camp will satisfy their need won't be discouraged by the disparity of consensus.

The only thing that matters is that you find someone who communicates the lessons in the clearest most effective way for your learning style. Whether that be through imagery,concise hands on instruction or simple demonstration if you are visually inclined.

I second that.

[JSGolf]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

I should apologize as I really do not want to bash or demean anyone and their choices. I have had nothing but negative experiences with the cgtf, from one member showing up at the club I worked as a youth and demanding his fees be comped. Now our head pro was not at the club and I had to ask this member of the cgtf to please leave, being 19 at the time and not that big it was not a pleasant experience. Another was a range last year where I was trying to help my gf learn the game and had a cgtf wander over and tell her that I had no idea what I was speaking about and for a fee he would show her the game. Not positive to say the least.

[racmbs]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

So JSGolf....let's here about you now.

Credentials please.....and we'll be the judge as to whether or not you are qualified to even comment (excuse me, BASH) the CGTF any further.

All you've been blowing in this thread is a ton of hot air.....

[Lefty17]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

In this agruement...I have friends that are both CPGA and CGTF...

You will find bad experiences with both and good experiences with both.

My course doesn't have either but a sister course has a CGTF....the guy charges through the roof and the times I've talk to him, he's shown he doesn't under stand the swing like others do. I cringe when I see him giving lessons.

On the other hand a friend of mine knows the swing inside out and nows alot probably too much about the game...

The CPGA's I know for the most part are on the good side but I know a couple that are _________.

I comes down to the knowledge that the teacher has. Good or bad experiences happen.

CGTF are a little quicker way to obtain your teaching certificate but you learn alot in a week. The CPGA teaches you the in's and out's of how to run the business side golf along with teaching.

[Golftime]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

I should apologize as I really do not want to bash or demean anyone and their choices. I have had nothing but negative experiences with the cgtf, from one member showing up at the club I worked as a youth and demanding his fees be comped. Now our head pro was not at the club and I had to ask this member of the cgtf to please leave, being 19 at the time and not that big it was not a pleasant experience. Another was a range last year where I was trying to help my gf learn the game and had a cgtf wander over and tell her that I had no idea what I was speaking about and for a fee he would show her the game. Not positive to say the least.

Sorry to hear that. Those two individuals are clearing not following the CGTF code of ethics.

[setter02]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Another was a range last year where I was trying to help my gf learn the game and had a cgtf wander over and tell her that I had no idea what I was speaking about and for a fee he would show her the game. Not positive to say the least.

That guys has balls. Either just plain ignorant or desperate for business to pull that. Personally I would have then challenged him to a game

[goshawk]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Sorry to hear that. Those two individuals are clearing not following the CGTF code of ethics.

You got that right! I would have loved to be there to get their names and let Bob Bryant know what they are doing.

[tourdeep]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

On the other hand a friend of mine knows the swing inside out and nows alot probably too much about the game...

That was sweet Lefty thanks. I'm glad I have that in writing.

[tourdeep]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

So JSGolf....let's here about you now.

Credentials please.....and we'll be the judge as to whether or not you are qualified to even comment (excuse me, BASH) the CGTF any further.

All you've been blowing in this thread is a ton of hot air.....

I'll second that!

[JSGolf]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Not sure of the relevance but what would you like to know about my credentials? Like where I have played? hcp? Tournament results?

[NickStarchuk]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

As a very proud CPGA member, I think the debate might be comparing apples to oranges. The CPGA's program to develop Canadian golf professional is fantastic and it continues to grow and improve. The educators and facilitators are constantly keeping up with the trends in the golf business to ensure that all areas of the golf business are covered: from teaching to club operations. I'll stick to the instructional component for this.

The CPGA has given me a great platform to learn and research the ways that I want to teach my players and showed me that regardless of what you teach, you are still teaching people, so the program has a strong focus on how people learn and how to properly organize what you want to teach. I have no information to give on the CGTF as far as their educational curriculum, however, if I find that this organization is teaching something cutting edge that I could not find through my own research and learning, I would be a certified CGTF instructor next week. This thread will make me find out what they are all about.

As far as golf teachers go, I have learned from world wide PGA members, CGTF and USGTF members, and great players with no affiliation to either group. My current mentor has no affiliation with any professional golf organization and yet has numerous tour players and has developed some of the worlds best junior golfers for over 15 years. I have learned more about the science in golf from 'regular-joes' who have an intense passion to find out WHY things happen, and through alot of detailed discussion, I have increased my knowledge of why things happen the way they do... and from there, I figure out a way to correct my players. So when it comes to teaching somebody how to improve their golf swing, does a certification really matter? I could put up 5 websites that if a person was to spend the next 4 months reading, you would be Very knowledgeable in the how's and why's of the golf swing.

So, at the end of the day, a great golf instructor has 3 things:

1. the ability to create a good rapport with a player and communicate effectively
2. an understanding of ball flight, and the abstract thinking to work backwards from here to find the cause to the affect (slice, hook, pull, fat, thin, etc)
3. a passion to continue to learn about the many different ways to get the ball to fly to a selected target

The CPGA has helped me with #3 and the first two I continue to learn on my own.

[northernpro]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

As a very proud CPGA member, I think the debate might be comparing apples to oranges. The CPGA's program to develop Canadian golf professional is fantastic and it continues to grow and improve. The educators and facilitators are constantly keeping up with the trends in the golf business to ensure that all areas of the golf business are covered: from teaching to club operations. I'll stick to the instructional component for this.

The CPGA has given me a great platform to learn and research the ways that I want to teach my players and showed me that regardless of what you teach, you are still teaching people, so the program has a strong focus on how people learn and how to properly organize what you want to teach. I have no information to give on the CGTF as far as their educational curriculum, however, if I find that this organization is teaching something cutting edge that I could not find through my own research and learning, I would be a certified CGTF instructor next week. This thread will make me find out what they are all about.

As far as golf teachers go, I have learned from world wide PGA members, CGTF and USGTF members, and great players with no affiliation to either group. My current mentor has no affiliation with any professional golf organization and yet has numerous tour players and has developed some of the worlds best junior golfers for over 15 years. I have learned more about the science in golf from 'regular-joes' who have an intense passion to find out WHY things happen, and through alot of detailed discussion, I have increased my knowledge of why things happen the way they do... and from there, I figure out a way to correct my players. So when it comes to teaching somebody how to improve their golf swing, does a certification really matter? I could put up 5 websites that if a person was to spend the next 4 months reading, you would be Very knowledgeable in the how's and why's of the golf swing.

So, at the end of the day, a great golf instructor has 3 things:

1. the ability to create a good rapport with a player and communicate effectively
2. an understanding of ball flight, and the abstract thinking to work backwards from here to find the cause to the affect (slice, hook, pull, fat, thin, etc)
3. a passion to continue to learn about the many different ways to get the ball to fly to a selected target

The CPGA has helped me with #3 and the first two I continue to learn on my own.

Nick..I agree with your summation..I will not judge
a teacher by his affiliation but judge his quality by results..JMO

[HLgolf]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Nick and Northernpro,

Thank you very much for your opinion and the other guy who started as CGTF and then continued with CPGA.
As most of you said already, at this time of my career, going through CPGA program is just not an option unless I win 6/49
And CGTF program seems to fit right in to fill the gap for people who are still passionate about the game and teaching but not really interested in the rest of golf business, including becoming a head pro of a golf course.
I also found out that, as an example, that Sandra Post golf academy also has CGTF instructor providing lessons (not to mention other golf courses listing their instructors and some of them are CGTF ceritified).

At the end of the day, CGTF or CPGA, still a piece of paper (yes, CPGA has a better visibility for sure). What matters is how good the person is in teach.

[WINTHORPE]

Re: CGTF vs. CPGA

Hey Gentlemen,

I am not a golf expert like some of you guys, but I do come from an educated backround in learning styles/patterns and have had a most recent personal experience that can shed light on this subject. Being a high handicapper and needing to improve my much needed confidence for my corporate golf outings, I went on a major search for a golf instructor.

Reading some of the posts, I would have to agree with Nick and Marcus... that is doesn't matter if your Cpga or Cgtf... there are great instructors in both affiiations I am sure. Its really all about the individual and where the Knowledge base came from.

I actually started my search here on TGN about a month ago and asked all you guys for your guidance. Many instructor names were given to me and I took it upon myself to research these individuals looking for there backround and testimonials or anythign of that nature. I also called the local golf magazines and asked there opinions. After calling a few of these guys and even interviewing a few, I decided on a great individual.

My instructor has taken it upon himself to go travel the world and learn and spend time with the best instructors. His knowledge base, backround, and reputation were excellent. We have been together a month now and I have learned so much and have referred him to many colleauges.

So basically I am saying.. I could care less if he was cpga or cgtf.. its nice he happens to be certified by the CPGA but i didnt care...He has learned from guys I would myself would want to learn from and he is only 15 min from my house!!

You can basically be an average guy who spends countless hours reading books and analyzing golf swings on youtube.. and you would probably know more then the average cpga or cgtf instuctor.... there are diamond in the rough out there ...

so do your research gentlemen,,, I did! and if paid off.....

cheers,

JP