Handicapping Rule Change

[aaagc]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

That is the overly complicated thinking. Average score works regardless of all other factors to provide a consistent basis of defining individual proven ability level. There so many variables that just create confusion.

Your first example does not happen because cap is only to be used on same course where it was measured. That covers most competitions. The tournament committee can create some adjustment factor if necessary. The reality is bowling proved that differences in conditions have little impact on an average score. A par 4 still needs 4 shots for par and is still a max of 2 over for handicap purposes.

Handicaps would not change over 20 rounds. They would stay the same for the whole season and only change for the start of the next season. Eliminates all the bs variability that distorts rather than defines potential.

Both had been playing on the same course in Texas. A moved to New York and B moved to Florida. How do you allocate new handicaps? Can they both play in tournaments in Wyoming and off what handicap.
Handicaps have got to be portable otherwise they make nonsense of their prime objective. A handicap allows players of all levels of golfing ability to compete against each other equally and, consequently, is essential to the popularity and prosperity of the game.

[Galted]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

Both had been playing on the same course in Texas. A moved to New York and B moved to Florida. How do you allocate new handicaps? Can they both play in tournaments in Wyoming and off what handicap.
Handicaps have got to be portable otherwise they make nonsense of their prime objective. A handicap allows players of all levels of golfing ability to compete against each other equally and, consequently, is essential to the popularity and prosperity of the game.

Okay, so now normalizing difficulty across courses and jurisdictions is a goal! You were insisting that it was not for the current system.

No problem. An average "over par" of all participants on each course can also be calculated annually and can be used to calculate each person's hcap on a different course. Course A has an average of 13.4 and course B has an average of 15.4 so my 10 handicap from A would be 11.49 or 11 on B.

Of course, you might next argue that the population of golfers might have a different make-up rendering the averages inaccurate. No more than today's inaccuracies but computers are great at deriving an index value from data looking at multiple groupings of values.

What is also great about this approach is that there are no artificial assumptions about only two skill levels being manipulated by human judgement. No ridiculous assertion that one is only expected to beat handicap once in 20 games. Each person's own average adjusted "over pars" for a year on same course are a very valid determination of scoring potential on an individual basis and one all can easily comprehend. Is that not a better way to allow players of all levels of golfing ability to compete against each other equally?

[AlfaGolfer]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

I was looking at the System Guide used out on the course.
I omitted Psychological as I thought it might get contentious.

What are the versions of your Manual and Guide? Mine are is 2012-2015 and has Obstacle Factors in Section 12 from page 44. But they are not in the form of a list.

I am awaiting a 2016 version which is specific to GB & Ireland.

The one I am using is The Golf Canada Handicap Manual, effective March 1, 2012 - February 29, 2016 (I guess soon to be updated).

[AlfaGolfer]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

I think Cornerstone is back in this thread.

[gotogolf]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

exactly: copied from Pope of Slope

"a player will better their handicap only about 20 percent of the time, or once every five rounds.

Golfers should only beat their handicap by three strokes one out of every 20 rounds."


from the same article:
there are 10x more players with vanity caps compared to sandbaggers, (great for us honest players who play competitive golf)

"only 1 to 2 percent of golfers are sandbaggers, while 10 percent fall into the vanity-handicap category "

Except all we hear is the sandbagger and those in tournament conditions always playing at or below their hc.

[aaagc]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

exactly: copied from Pope of Slope

"a player will better their handicap only about 20 percent of the time, or once every five rounds.

Golfers should only beat their handicap by three strokes one out of every 20 rounds."

http://www.usga.org/Handicapping/handicap-manual.html#!rule-14410

from the same article:
there are 10x more players with vanity caps compared to sandbaggers, (great for us honest players who play competitive golf)
"only 1 to 2 percent of golfers are sandbaggers, while 10 percent fall into the vanity-handicap category"

Knuth has never been able to justify that statement

[AlfaGolfer]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

Except all we hear is the sandbagger and those in tournament conditions always playing at or below their hc.

People like to complain. Plus, they don't seem to understand that the way to win, or to do well in a handicapped event, is to play better than your handicap. Which does happen.

[Shadow]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

I think scores should be the basis. I would take over par per round excluding penalties and to a max of 2 over per hole. Average adj over par for a season on same course would remain the basis for entire next season unless an appeal of special circumstances is made to a handicap committee.

Based on 60 rounds on my home courses (we have 36 holes) in 2015, I averaged 2.9 strokes over par. Do you mean then, that my handicap factor for the entire 2016 should be 2.9 using your suggested method?

[Weirfan]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

Based on 60 rounds on my home courses (we have 36 holes) in 2015, I averaged 2.9 strokes over par. Do you mean then, that my handicap factor for the entire 2016 should be 2.9 using your suggested method?

Ballantrae was my home course for over 10 years .

From the tips the rating is 72.5 slope of 134
From the blues the rating is 70.5 , slope of 130.
On average I score almost 1.5 strokes less from the Black tees when compared to the Blue.

I guess if I wanted to sandbag I would just play the blue tees all the time.

[rulie]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

Based on 60 rounds on my home courses (we have 36 holes) in 2015, I averaged 2.9 strokes over par. Do you mean then, that my handicap factor for the entire 2016 should be 2.9 using your suggested method?

I wonder how he thinks 'par' would be established? It's hardly a good basis for handicapping.

[Galted]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

Based on 60 rounds on my home courses (we have 36 holes) in 2015, I averaged 2.9 strokes over par. Do you mean then, that my handicap factor for the entire 2016 should be 2.9 using your suggested method?

Your handicap not handicap factor would be 3 if in your average over par you never counted penalties or more than 2 over on any hole. What is your handicap factor?

[Galted]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

I wonder how he thinks 'par' would be established? It's hardly a good basis for handicapping.

What is on the scorecard is good enough and saves the cost of all the rating people creating an even less consistent foundation. A person's average score over par across a season on same course is the best determinant of scoring potential (on any day rather than best days) which is exactly what handicap is all about. Counting only 2 over on any hole and no penalties removes the impact of all the other variables.

[Ignatius Reilly]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

What is on the scorecard is good enough and saves the cost of all the rating people creating an even less consistent foundation. A person's average score over par across a season on same course is the best determinant of scoring potential (on any day rather than best days) which is exactly what handicap is all about. Counting only 2 over on any hole and no penalties removes the impact of all the other variables.

What if I play a number of different courses?

If I shoot 90 on a course, is that 18 over or 20 over? Who determines if the course is par 70 or 72?

(Why am I getting into this.... )

[Galted]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

What if I play a number of different courses?

If I shoot 90 on a course, is that 18 over or 20 over? Who determines if the course is par 70 or 72?

(Why am I getting into this.... )

Calc would use the course most frequently played in the season. Sampling is a valid statistical approach and one course ensures that you have a valid average based upon a course you know well. What it effectively does is rate your ability only based upon bogey or better holes. Difficult to sandbag a seasonal average!

Yes, whomever established the scorecard par for each hole can create some angst over validity but we have far more angst now. For example, I have seen hot players heading into a tournament forget to post their good scores because an ill timed hot streak messes them up unfairly.

You count for hcap purposes up to 2 strokes over scorecard par excluding penalties. For almost all competitions, you are playing against players from your own course so all have same foundation. If each course is indexed annually based upon statistical results, par distortions would be normalized.

[Weirfan]

Re: Handicapping Rule Change

. For almost all competitions, you are playing against players from your own course so all have same foundation. If each course is indexed annually based upon statistical results, par distortions would be normalized.

I play in 4 tournaments most years, all are 2 or 3 day events and I have yet to see one other player from my registered home course.

For those who play their competitive golf in the GTA am tour events the players are from all over.

As the person above said what if you play all over? A quick look at my last 20 rounds and they were on 13 different courses, only 5 on my home course.


Impossible to make a system perfect and if people are going to cheat they will and are easily recognized after a couple events.
The existing system is perfectly fine