Cheaters

[triniexr]

How long has he been golfing? Some newbies doesn't know that a drop counts as 1 or some people need to be reminded...

When I was just learning to golf I was golfing with a very low handicap golfer. Best advice he ever gave me was do not play against him, look at the score card and the par for that hole, that is what you are playing against. Try and beat the score card and don't try and out drive him or be a hero.

[Ignatius Reilly]

When I first started playing, I played about half my rounds with a guy who had grown up in the game, was competitive (we always played match play) and knew the rules very well. We played for money, sort of. Loser bought the first round of beer, and we always had 2 rounds....

I never cheated, but I did get my score wrong on a number of occasions. His response was "are you sure? Let's go over your score. Most of the time he'd find/remember/identify some horrid shot that I'd forgotten about - often one that meant I had to hit pretty much the same shot with the next swing, and only remembered the productive strokes.

I had no problem with this - they were honest mistakes, and like the OP's situation, there was no (real) money on the line. I gradually got better at remembering everything.

I would MUCH prefer this over being presented with a complete alternate scorecard at the end of the round. That's just a big "AHA!!! I can prove you are a cheater!!!!". That pretty much would kick him out (or make him take himself out) of the group, possibly taking his friend with him. Is it worth it? In a non-money situation, what's the point of that?

If I had to guess, the guy doesn't keep a handicap. Based on casual observation, I would guess that the majority of non-club-members don't.

[Sportyluis]

Are you sure he doesn't mean mark him down as double par? When I play with my brother in law that's what he means when he says double.

I personally don't care what other people mark down on their scorecard but I only play for beers when there's 4 of us and we keep each other honest.

My dad doesn't count his penalty strokes when playing but I'm ok with that as he does count all his mishits and we are playing just for fun. It also helps him keep his score close to mine which keeps him coming back for more golf!

[Dimpled Balls]

How long has he been golfing? Some newbies doesn't know that a drop counts as 1 or some people need to be reminded...

When I was just learning to golf I was golfing with a very low handicap golfer. Best advice he ever gave me was do not play against him, look at the score card and the par for that hole, that is what you are playing against. Try and beat the score card and don't try and out drive him or be a hero.

He's been golfing for over a decade now. He understands the rules but he is super competitive with our friend group or any person we get paired up with that he's always looking to come out on top even though it doesn't happen.

[4wedges]

I prefer your attitude. My Old Man used to take friends and/or clients golfing frequently. He would often provide them with a dozen new logoed balls prior to the round. He would of course also have another dozen in his bag/pockets. Then if they put one into the woods/fescue etc. would casually mention that he found their ball while dropping one down.

Many scored their best rounds while playing with him and even now with him gone, may talk about how much they enjoyed playing golf with him.

I like that; what a nice story.

[Benz]

...look at the score card and the par for that hole, that is what you are playing against. Try and beat the score card and don't try and out drive him or be a hero.

I understand his point, but I would disagree with it to some extent.

That is, AFIK "par" is defined as the number of shots that a 'scratch' player would most likely score on the hole. So, by that guy telling another player to 'play against the scorecard', he's essentially telling him to play against a scratch golfer.

What I recommend to any player higher than a single-digit cap is to ignore the par on the scorecard and instead set their own par for some or all of the holes. Taking this approach sets realistic expectations and avoids being tempted to make "glory" shots that rarely turn out well and usually result in explosion holes. For example, if an average player is faced with a long difficult par-4, then playing conservatively for a safe bogey may be the best option. Take this approach a few times and personal par for the course becomes 78 rather than 72, and that is far more achievable.

[miles]

A good buddy of mine always cheats on his score when has a bad hole or I’m ahead of him.
I don’t bother calling him out on it because nothing is at stake, but when we play for money I always call him on it.

[Marty Canuck]

There’s a friend of a friend we play with from time to time. Solid guy and not bad to play with except for the fact that he cheats his score on almost every hole.

He has a passive personality and we feel it’s awkward to call out his lying even though we’d like to at some point. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t affect my golf score but it’s only hurting himself.

The other day, he lost 2 balls on one hole, 3-putted and did whatever else he had to, to get to the green. He said “mark me down for a double”.

How would you nuts approach this constant type of cheating? Or would you just let it go?

I have trouble letting it go. But I use the “are you sure” approach and then help them replay the shots. I don’t even play for money most of the time but like to help people understand the rules a bit better.

On Mondays I play in a very casual league. The only “competition” is CTP contests. We don’t turn in scores so what someone shoots (or imagines they shoot) is pretty irrelevant. On those nights I’ll chime in with the “proper” rule options and then tell them they can make whatever choice they want (i.e. hitting a Mulligan, a generous drop, fluffing a lie, etc.) as it makes no real difference to me.

When I get frustrated is when someone who is clearly playing worse than me calls in a better score than I recorded on many holes. But that is just my personal ego kicking in a bit and for me recording my score correctly matters more to me.

[QuentinJJ]

Get the group to start keeping handicaps. As soon as everybody has a cap start playing net games and count all his shots at that point. The vanity capper will soon see the error of his ways.

Scramble scorecards? You keep mine and I'll keep yours, confirm after every hole?

[synergy]

Scramble scorecards? You keep mine and I'll keep yours, confirm after every hole?

I like this a lot, but maybe compare at the end of the round. A great way to start the conversation about scoring properly.

And maybe that's it. Don't accuse the guy of cheating, but rather show him how to score properly. Play dumb and ask him "tell me how you arrived at a 6 when I had you down for a 9... Maybe I miss-counted strokes."

A little passive aggressive maybe, but better than confrontation.

[Arthur Dailey]

I like that; what a nice story.

Thanks. My Old Man lived for golf. In his 60's he played 6 days a week. Often 36 holes. In all kinds of weather.
And as much as he loved the game, he most enjoyed making it enjoyable for his playing partners.

[Giller31]

When I get frustrated is when someone who is clearly playing worse than me calls in a better score than I recorded on many holes. But that is just my personal ego kicking in a bit and for me recording my score correctly matters more to me.

I agree with this Marty Canuck. I don't play for anything with my friends, and I'm usually worried about my own score then mentally counting my friend's, but when I know someone struggles on a hole and I wind with with say a bogey maybe because of a 3 putt and they note they scored the same, I can't help but raise a Spockian eyebrow and say "really"? It just grinds me a little bit even though I know they aren't fussed about an "honest" score for cap purposes whereas I have been much more focused on making sure I'm tracking my rounds as I like to measure my progress.

[sikoram]

I played Senior Interclub last year with an 81 year old. We got to the par 5 13th green and were both on the collar. I said to him "what are you laying"?. He looked me square in the eye and said " Mike, I have no idea"! Seniors get a break. We agreed to halve the hole.

[QuentinJJ]

I agree with this Marty Canuck. I don't play for anything with my friends, and I'm usually worried about my own score then mentally counting my friend's, but when I know someone struggles on a hole and I wind with with say a bogey maybe because of a 3 putt and they note they scored the same, I can't help but raise a Spockian eyebrow and say "really"? It just grinds me a little bit even though I know they aren't fussed about an "honest" score for cap purposes whereas I have been much more focused on making sure I'm tracking my rounds as I like to measure my progress.

I don't play for anything either.

What gets me is when the player can't find a ball, hasn't hit a provisional, and says I'll just hit here with a penalty so stroke but not distance. Or treating OB as a lateral hazard. These two improve a player's score considerably. Not to mention giving short putts...

[sikoram]

I don't play for anything either.

What gets me is when the player can't find a ball, hasn't hit a provisional, and says I'll just hit here with a penalty so stroke but not distance. Or treating OB as a lateral hazard. These two improve a player's score considerably. Not to mention giving short putts...

As long as he takes a 2 stroke penalty, follows the procedure for the local rule if it is in force at the club you are playing, he MAY be playing within the rules.